Abebe Bikila was still faster than pretty much every US marathoner today and he did not even wear shoes. So you clowns need to hit the pavement and stop worrying about the shoes.
Abebe Bikila was still faster than pretty much every US marathoner today and he did not even wear shoes. So you clowns need to hit the pavement and stop worrying about the shoes.
The latest science article cited in the Times asserted that the plate doesn't act as a spring but rather as a lever for the foam portion, and hence, is legal, but forget about calling a race in vf's a pr any more than if you wore those spiras the third tier Kenyans used to run 26 on the roads in Detroit years back.
juanito wrote:
Buster Cherry wrote:
- Some have compared to using EPO or to using types of doping that are sketchy but not illegal yet because the rules haven't caught up yet. That's ridiculous - this isn't like some blind spot in the rules that USATF hasn't figured out yet that you are taking advantage of. Look at it this way - you would never admit in an interview that you were doing that random type of doping that isn't illegal, but you would obviously be fine telling people you are wearing Vaporfly's because they can already see them on your feet!
They're more akin to the now-illegal swimsuits people were using to break records a few years ago.
Exactly. And in both cases you should wear them as long as they are legal.
4% is done but guess what's coming next?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB2di69FmhE
That's right! 5%
dull brains like marketing
Super fast, highly competitive 10k from the UK...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/128461028@N06/albums/72157704144892334/page1
A LOT of these runners are wearing the 4%...
And they corner like they're on rails.
Paul Bunyan’s wrote:
Also I heard Nike isn’t making anymore of these shoes - thoughts?
1) this is false - new color dropping start of 2019
YMMV wrote:
It seems obvious that the "spring" comes from the foam and the plate is their for stability to keep from blowing out your ankle. If the plate was the spring, it wouldn't wear out so quickly.
2) this is correct - the foam is the benefit, but because its so soft, it needs the stability of the carbon. this is why they corner like S**t
3) ya'll need to stop being so precious, the shoe is good, but anyone can copy it, wont be long before every company has a version. Its just Nike will be on to the next thing by then.
gads wrote:
3) ya'll need to stop being so precious, the shoe is good, but anyone can copy it, wont be long before every company has a version. Its just Nike will be on to the next thing by then.
That's what I would've thought but VF4% are out there for almost 2 years now and still nothing from competitors.
Here's how idiots wrote:
No matter how many unscientific arguments you ignorant home schoolers make, no passive shoe (or track surface) will let you run faster than your natural potential.
Home school students consistently outperform public and expensive private school students on the SAT and ACT.
Even Amish home school students do better than the top rated public schools.
Your slur showed that you are ignorant of that objective comparison but I do agree somewhat with your shoe statement.
jrtjrsjksty rykj s wrote:
Super fast, highly competitive 10k from the UK...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/128461028@N06/albums/72157704144892334/page1A LOT of these runners are wearing the 4%...
Weird that they're wearing them for a 10K. Do pros wear the 4% for anything shorter than a half? Seems like you don't need it at those shorter distances and would be better off with a much firmer shoe, maybe an ounce lighter.
Well then just makes shoes illegal and make everyone run barefoot.
Vaporfly 4% efficiency is not due to the carbon fiber plate, but the Zoom X foam. Nike bought this foam from an aerospace company. They didn't create it. Brands and other companies are trying to work with what technologies they have, which is why they are so behind compared to Nike. Nike had Zoom X served on a silver platter which is why they're so ahead of the game in this area.
Ha ha ha ha, YES! It's the magic space foam that's making all the difference. That carbon fiber plate is doing nothing. In fact they've said it will be removed from the next Vaporfly iteration to bring the weight down.
Then it's going to be 5/6% min baby!
As a cyclist I wish marginal gains came so cheap and easy. Here I am thinking about spending $2500 on some new wheels.
Wondering what shoes your wearing vaperfly asterisk or do you run barefoot?
Vaporfly Asterisk wrote:
Ha ha ha ha, YES! It's the magic space foam that's making all the difference. That carbon fiber plate is doing nothing. In fact they've said it will be removed from the next Vaporfly iteration to bring the weight down.
Then it's going to be 5/6% min baby!
Smart guy, you realize the vapor fly isnt the only shoe with a carbon fiber plate right? You realize there's the HOKA ONE ONE Carbon Rocket, Nike Zoom Victory Elite, and even the Nike Zoom Fly Flyknit. There are even carbon fiber insoles. Why dont those work exactly like the vapor fly? The new Saucony prototype? New Brooks Prototype? All of these have carbon fiber plates. If Carbon fiber was really the complete answer, companies wouldn't be struggling to make a competitive shoe. Think before you type.
Ha ha, absolute quality! I love how (seemingly completely lacking in awareness) you point out how all these other manufacturers are trying out plates to match the Vaporflys, yet want to say they're not the answer ? Superb!
Of course, the plate isn't the Complete answer, it's not acting in isolation. But then I never claimed it was. Pretty much in the same way I've never stated that I'm exclusively against the plate in the Vaporflys, even though you bizarrely seem to have pulled that out of thin air.
Wonderful thinking "before you type" there buddy...
Matbar wrote:
Wondering what shoes your wearing vaperfly asterisk or do you run barefoot?
Pegs and Reacts at the moment. Absolutely love the cushioning / responsiveness of the Reacts.
pre stopped wrote:
Paul Bunyan’s wrote:
After watching every sub elite i know set huge PRs all season in the Cheaterflys I caved and bought a pair - gotta admit after rocking them I’m curious how they are even legal as the advantage doesn’t even seem small, the energy return and spring feeling is quite prominent.
Also I heard Nike isn’t making anymore of these shoes - thoughts?
Sincere replies notwithstanding, this sounds like a cheesy Nike sales intern post. My apologies if you are VP of sales.
I was thinking the same. I mean, what has it done for Hasay? Even Rupp has only gone several seconds faster than Hall's London time and a few slower than his Houston half. Flanagan hasn't set any PRs in it. Hardly groundbreaking.
Hoka has had the Carbon Rocket, with a carbon plate, for some time now.. just not available to the public. You can find used pairs (or unused, older pairs) on eBay from time to time. And supposedly it's actually going on sale in 2019.
I think the main reasons people are running faster are
1. placebo effect. It's easier for a 3:45 marathon runner to cut 7 minutes off their time if their mental game is changed. Tell someone who is running at 70% of their potential that they are as fit as ever, and the confidence alone will shave a few minutes off. Not to easy if you are pushing the limits already..hence why, Kipchoge aside, not many elites are really setting new PRs in the shoe.
2. Fatigue. If they made a 7 ounce Hoka Clifton that had the same rigidity as the standard version, I bet it would be the same result as the Vaporfly. Fatigue is everything in the marathon. Whether the plate adds spring.. who knows. Foam has good energy return? Yeah.. well there are a lot of good foams out there. But, currently there is nothing that is as supportive, and as light as the Vaporfly. And delaying that onset of fatigue counts for something.
3. Insane Nike marketing. Even if Saucony or Adidas made a shoe with the exact same performances in the lab.. no one would care. It's not Nike. Same reason a Hyundai Elantra will never get the credibility of a Honda Civic, even though it's probably a better car.