Training Discussion Thread - outsiderunner

Thanks for this thread! Lots of great information. Keep it going.

I, like others, would love to see you choose one your future 5ks(or similar) and finish where you say, "I raced smart, but had absolutely nothing left in the tank at the finish line. " Regardless, best wishes to you.

Side note: My dad ran in college and became a high school CC/Track coach. I've been around many other coaches. Stone Cutter, I bet you rank at the top of those even with the little I've seen here. Best wishes to also and please continue to advise (here).

C'mon guys, throw us a bone here. Lots of fans of this training thread and it's been over a week without updates.

OR races again tomorrow. I am sure he will update the thread afterwards.

He has been putting in higher volume very easy miles and hitting some strong workouts the last couple weeks.

We will transition to more marathon specific training after this week’s race.

This was his week from 1/28 to 2/3

M: 10.25 at 7:14 overall...cold but sunny

T: 11.25 at 6:32 overall...fartlek workout...felt great...Did 22 x 1:00/1:00 at mostly 5k pace

W: 10.13 at 7:17 overall...c-cold...tough running

T: 11.25 at 6:55 pace...stinkin’ cold...hilly...picked up speed naturally...finished 6:48, 6:43, 6:44, 6:48, 6:37, 6:41, 6:05,1:31...so, like a mini-flyer

F: 10.5 at 6:52 overall...still cold...had good pep toward the end...6:51, 6:45, 6:39, 6:32, 6:09, 2:54 to finish

Sat.: 10.25 at 7:26 overall...coach put in the order for easy pace, and I did my best to hold back

Sun.: 18.5 at 6:42 overall...quality LR workout...10/8.5...hilly...felt great...8.5 at MP, finishing 6:05, 6:09, 6:03, 5:59, 6:01, 5:58, 5:58, 5:55, 2:56...felt REALLY good

82 miles

This week so far (2/4 to 2/8)

M- 12.13 miles at 7:27.

T - 12.13 miles at 7:25.

W - 2 mile warmup. 10 x .5 mile off :90 recovery jogs (2:45.8 average for the .5 miles). 2.5 mile cool down.

Th - 11.13 miles at 7:28.

F - 10.5 miles at 7:26.

Tomorrow 5k race.

Thanks, Coach Stone, for filling in the blanks.

My apologies for not providing more updates. As Stone has stated, I have been on the higher end of mileage, and, especially of late, have been slowing down the pace some, as per what will be coming in the weeks ahead. I am quite happy with the mileage totals, and with the way the workouts have been going. Stone is a real genius.

I race tomorrow, and am looking to really get after it, especially in regard to competing. It will be very cold and windy, and the course is hilly throughout, a challenging course. However, my body is feeling absolutely super. My run today felt like nothing. Looking at 85 miles or so for the week.

Will chime in tomorrow...or maybe coach will beat me to it. :-)

All the best...

Hey, folks, here is my week...

M: 12.13 at 7:27 overall...nice, easy running

T: 12.13 at 7:25 overall...more of the same

W: 11.51 total miles...10 x half mile workout (90-second jog recoveries)...done on the roads...some wind...averaged 2:45.8 for the 10 reps...felt good, though intervals still spook me some

T: 11.13 at 7:28 overall

F: 10.5 at 7:26 overall..felt really good

Sat.: 10.53 miles total...2.30 warm-up (including strides)...5k race in 17:42 on a cold, windy morning and a hilly course...5.13 at 7:14 overall in the cool down

Sun: 20.25 at 7:20 overall...felt like nothing...felt great the whole way...7:54 --> 7:00

88 miles (a new mileage PR)

5k Race Report

Cold and windy, I believe 24F with a widchill of 14F at the start...a decidedly hilly course, featuring a notable uphill climb in the last mile, from about 2.2 to 2.8.

It was hard to get warm in the warm-up. Did two miles easy, and then about .3 worth of strides.

The race starts with something of a downhill pitch. Juan goes to the front and I maneuver to get behind him, but there are a bunch of guys in the mix, including some I did not expect to be there. So, I am not liking the downhill drops (never have), but I am moving along, controlling things. Juan makes a move around the mile 1 mark, and I am slow to respond and these other guys get in the way. We have been heading into the wind thus far. In any case, now I have to pick my way through these guys (about six of them), and then re-focus on reeling in Juan.

In mile two, we go over a lot of rollers, and I am now in second place, but the guys behind me are trying to pick me off. I basically say “enough of this,” and throw a surge on the next uphill, dropping them. This was at about 1.4. Their steps soon fade away. Now I have to catch Juan. He is about 8-9 seconds ahead. I got closer and had a shot there in mile two, but could not bring myself to surge enough to close the gap. I knew the tough hill was coming. I waited.

We go over the stream and the railroad track, and I have now passed the mile 2 sign. I can see the incline ahead. I was thinking Juan might start coming back to me. But he did not. He handed the hill well, though I did get closer to him...but did not surge to catch him. The hill was putting a bit of a dent in me, but in retrospect I think I felt decent enough.

I can now see the major intersection ahead and the top of the final roller at about 2.8 or so. I now know that it is getting late...probably too late. I pretty much settle for second. I see Juan turn left and head for the final straight of about .2. I picked up the pace some, but knew it was too little too late. I finish 7 seconds behind, Juan winning and running 17:35 and me in second running 17:42.

I went inside to get warm (hands and feet were very cold) and to go pee. About 10-15 minutes later, I ran the course again, and added some, getting 5.13 at 7:14 overall.

All the best...

outsiderunner wrote:

Juan goes to the front and I maneuver to get behind him, but there are a bunch of guys in the mix, including some I did not expect to be there.

Nice racing, congratulations for old man too. I am wondering about how narrow is the road. Sometimes get boxed in on track or trail. Not so much on road race. I remember same thing last time.

o.r. fan wrote:

outsiderunner wrote:

Juan goes to the front and I maneuver to get behind him, but there are a bunch of guys in the mix, including some I did not expect to be there.

Nice racing, congratulations for old man too. I am wondering about how narrow is the road. Sometimes get boxed in on track or trail. Not so much on road race. I remember same thing last time.

Thanks very much. The roads are pretty typical two lane country roads, though the one for the second mile is a little narrower than that and has some brief segments of gravel. I do seem to somehow get boxed in pretty easily.

Have you discussed positioning tactics with Coach Stone? This is something that you plan for well in advance of race day. If your goal is to beat Juan then why don’t you tuck in directly behind him? Approach it like a race on the track where you are right on his heels. That doesn’t guarantee you a win but you want to put yourself in the best possible position late in the race.

Yes, in fact this is precisely what Coach Stone has directed that I do—tuck right in behind Juan, but somehow I have let others get in there, and I get out of position. In thinking more about what happens, I believe Juan starts making his move right when these other guys have cut in front of me. He never looks back, and so I am not sure how he would know.

My recommendation...be more assertive. You must not be following Juan close enough if other guys are able to squeeze in between. You have to fight for position in races like these (almost as if you were on a track) and respond immediately to any move that Juan makes.

too hot 3 wrote:

My recommendation...be more assertive. You must not be following Juan close enough if other guys are able to squeeze in between. You have to fight for position in races like these (almost as if you were on a track) and respond immediately to any move that Juan makes.

I agree. I must get closer to Juan, and be very assertive and observant. In this last race, I think the downhill in the first half mile or so worked against me. On steeper downhills I never feel quite comfortable, especially with 6-8 people around me. Thank you for the input.

Absolutely crushed today’s workout.

6 x 1 mile with 2:00 jog rests...target was 5:40-5:48.

5:45, 5:38, 5:35, 5:37, 5:40, 5:36

Averaged 5:38.5. In complete control throughout. Felt super!

This was after an easy 12-miler yesterday...12.13 at 7:26 overall.

Right now, I am “living in my own private Idaho.” :-)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n7t7cGwN7_0

Forgot to note...workout was performed on the roads.

Killer run.

Keep on keeping on. That's a heck of a workout OR.

Thanks, guys! Very much appreciate it.

As the song says, “Don’t stop by til ya get enough.” Listening to that right now. :-)

Don’t know how “by” got in there. Darn autocorrect.

outsiderunner wrote:

Forgot to note...workout was performed on the roads.

Doesnt matter in your case.With a real pro coach you could have been quite a decent runner.