This was a crazy week for Tinman-style coaching

I hate to be the guy who's just saying what you expected people to say, but if you think what they're doing is some type of revelatory training system - you don't know much at all about the history of training and the coaching of the past.

Coach Schwartz just knows how to "not overdo it," which is the biggest most people thinking more and faster is always the way to go. He stands out these days mostly because most other people seem not to get it right. He is also an incredibly passionate student of the sport and sport science and compassionate coach. Sure, he puts his own labels on things, but also gives clear explanations about why. There probably isn't anything NEW in coaching in any sport, just different combinations and explanations.

Han Solo wrote:

I hate to be the guy who's just saying what you expected people to say, but if you think what they're doing is some type of revelatory training system - you don't know much at all about the history of training and the coaching of the past.

You must be an amazing coach. What have your athletes done lately?

Plenty of coaches do very little true VO2 work. Especially in the NCAA .

Sounds like what they are doing at CU and NAU....Solid, consistent training = Good race results.

Look at their training on Strava. They don’t do absolutely no VO2 work but it’s less then a lot of programs and often comes in the form of a fartlek:

10-12x60s @ 5k/3k pace w/ 30s rest

5-6x3 mins on/2mins off

800 reps w/ 1:45 recovery

Etc.

These are done sparingly though and most sessions are 10k/threshold/tempo + hills + strides

From all accounts this is how the Ingebrigtsens are doing it too, so lets cast an eye to Euro XC as well. Norway being the quasi-official home of polarized, 80/20 training, not really surprising.

I hear there is another coach from the Boise area that had a great season. Why isn't everyone talking about him?

tellushgreatone wrote:

Han Solo wrote:

I hate to be the guy who's just saying what you expected people to say, but if you think what they're doing is some type of revelatory training system - you don't know much at all about the history of training and the coaching of the past.

You must be an amazing coach. What have your athletes done lately?

I’m not sure what my original post had to do with my own training or coaching?

I can only speak about my own training experience ... but I have noticed that Daniels style vo2max intervals lead to burning out and a short season. That's why I always boggle at the people on this site that say you need 5x1k on 60s rest, 3-4x mile on 1-1.5m rest. That is always a recipe for disaster.

Gbvsjndg wrote:

Look at their training on Strava. They don’t do absolutely no VO2 work but it’s less then a lot of programs and often comes in the form of a fartlek:

10-12x60s @ 5k/3k pace w/ 30s rest

5-6x3 mins on/2mins off

800 reps w/ 1:45 recovery

Etc.

These are done sparingly though and most sessions are 10k/threshold/tempo + hills + strides

Who can we follow on strava that shows tin man training?

On that topic, any other elites worth following?

Elites on Strava:

Tinmen:

Drew Hunter

Reed Fischer

Jordan Gusman (private)

Jeff Thies

Kyle Medina

Current Pros:

Karissa Schweizer

Scott Fauble (Scott Faubs on Strava)

Grayson Murphy

Dillon Maggard

Danielle Katz

Cam Levins

Ben True

People who I think still have NCAA eligibility:

Mike Tate

Christian Ricketts

Carlos Villarreal

Rory Linkletter

I don't know how many of these post regularly. I know the Tinmen, Schweizer, Fauble, and Linkletter post most if not all of their runs.

Also, I'm sure I'm missing quite a few. After all, Sage Canaday is on Strava!

Not my usual handle wrote:

Loudoun Valley wins NXN with a record low score, using training inspired by Tinman. Brogan Austin wins CIM in 2:12 after working with Tinman for 5 months. Tinman Elite wins club nationals without Drew Hunter. Say what you will about the self-promotion from either Tinman Elite or Tinman himself, but the training system clearly works.

Is there a point when this style--layered intensity, focus on 10k intervals, moderate mileage, relative lack of VO2--will get copied by others? Or is the response just going to be "Tinman does nothing new, everyone does this" by coaches and athletes not getting the same results that he does?

So, it’s just easy with hills/tempo/10k intervals?

Han Solo wrote:

I hate to be the guy who's just saying what you expected people to say, but if you think what they're doing is some type of revelatory training system - you don't know much at all about the history of training and the coaching of the past.

Can you provide examples? The only other prominent coach I know of that sticks to these principals is Bideau of Melbourne track club. Sure other coaches have trained aerobic with little V02 work, have done layered training, and have done work at ~10k effort, but not as often and for as long as Tinman does consistently/deliberately. The workouts he gives aren’t revolutionary, but the way his training schedules are laid out are very atypical when it comes to how most coaches structure seasons. Sometimes the answers to things are quite obvious and people like to make it more complicated than it actually is. Tom seems to have applied that and people really don’t like that he has success. Maybe blaming luck of funding, poor team culture, location, etc. will make them feel better about their lack of results.

Yes, not revolutionary training. Tinman's approach is to emphasize not trying to do heroic workouts. That's how most runners want to train, but they need advice that it's not the best approach.

I just qualified for the Olympic Trials in the marathon and I am coached by Tinman. It's really simple, pragmatic training. Nothing crazy at all. No gut busting workouts. I think one important aspect is that I am always doing hill reps after track workouts or tempos and short fartlek strides the day before workouts. This nueromuscular conditioning has really helped me to get the benefits from each session.

Aussies:

Luke Mathews

Jack Rayner

Ben St. Lawrence

Jordy Williamsz

A bunch others that I’m forgetting.

Are your workouts on Strava? Would love to see your training log. Also, congrats!