Just remember that Rojo was the guy who thought the track at -- hmm, was it Beijing? -- was short, and was up late asking where he could find a surveyor's wheel to take to the track and verify it.
Yeah, that's the tool you need. A surveyor's wheel.
He may be right or he may be wrong about this racecourse, but the dude knows bugger-all about measurement. That's obvious.
D.Katz wrote:
Looking at the race video and studying the online course map:
1. The difference where they actually did the u-turn to the online loop appears to be about 500m short.
2. Based on google images, I can't even see where there is an entrance at the very north part of the loop.
3. I'm not sure how I would have measured much of this course considering the lane restrictions for this level race. Sometimes the available road was split - but not evenly.
My gut reaction is that the course may have been measured correctly but the government may have changed it at the last minute and the organizers had no choice.....it's happened before.
Cut the lights, folks. The definitive name in course certification has filed an amicus brief on behalf of RoJo.
I’ll leave it to the rest of you jokers to google Mr. Katz’s credentials. Hint; he’s one of the top 5 most knowledgable posters here.
Nice work Rojo.
I love how the car barely makes the turn-around. What happened with the course setup? Last minute decision they weren't allowed to close the loop?
old measurer wrote:
Just remember that Rojo was the guy who thought the track at -- hmm, was it Beijing? -- was short, and was up late asking where he could find a surveyor's wheel to take to the track and verify it.
Yeah, that's the tool you need. A surveyor's wheel.
He may be right or he may be wrong about this racecourse, but the dude knows bugger-all about measurement. That's obvious.
Bit harsh.
Tell us where he's wrong here.
While I'm happy you/Hawkeye have pointed this out, can we take a slight detour and talk about your bookmarks? "Stately McDaniel Manor"... My goodness.
Also, no need to button the topmost button on that shirt. Otherwise, great video and thanks for sharing!
Boosie boo wrote:
D.Katz wrote:
Looking at the race video and studying the online course map:
1. The difference where they actually did the u-turn to the online loop appears to be about 500m short.
2. Based on google images, I can't even see where there is an entrance at the very north part of the loop.
3. I'm not sure how I would have measured much of this course considering the lane restrictions for this level race. Sometimes the available road was split - but not evenly.
My gut reaction is that the course may have been measured correctly but the government may have changed it at the last minute and the organizers had no choice.....it's happened before.
Cut the lights, folks. The definitive name in course certification has filed an amicus brief on behalf of RoJo.
I’ll leave it to the rest of you jokers to google Mr. Katz’s credentials. Hint; he’s one of the top 5 most knowledgable posters here.
There's a few who could "file an amicus brief", I'm guessing the best person would be the one who measured the course originally who would be an Grade “A” Course Measurement Official, take your pick. Whoever it was they'll want to get the new short distance out there along with the fact that it being short wasn't down to them.
http://aims-worldrunning.org/measurers.htmlklj wrote:
If you look at 3;31 in the video you can see a U-Turn sign for the course. Definitely something interesting happened. It's a blue sign on the right.
Also in the letsrun video you can see hordings up where they would return from that roundabout so maybe some construction going on after the course fly through video was produced? A late course change after measurement? The distance made up somewhere else at late notice but split clocks not moved?
+1.
Was waiting for DK to chime in.
Also, did an official from the marathon make a statement about the course yet? Did anyone ask? Or are they just going to ignore this whole thing?
If this is so important and critical why don't you climb on a plane and wheel the course as shown on video.
Or you can hire someone that certifies courses in that part of the world to wheel it for you.
Stop the noise, suppositions, the "it looks like" and absolutes with hard evidence.
On another note, why would you not show more passion like this on something as important as the loss of Hayward Field ( the how did it happen behind the scenes) the lack of american male marathons capable of running world class times, the mysterious case of Vin Lananna and his corruption investigation, the travesty of USATF and its inability to be effective in building the sport with a CEO salary at $1.7 million a year.
Boosie boo wrote:
D.Katz wrote:
Looking at the race video and studying the online course map:
1. The difference where they actually did the u-turn to the online loop appears to be about 500m short.
2. Based on google images, I can't even see where there is an entrance at the very north part of the loop.
3. I'm not sure how I would have measured much of this course considering the lane restrictions for this level race. Sometimes the available road was split - but not evenly.
My gut reaction is that the course may have been measured correctly but the government may have changed it at the last minute and the organizers had no choice.....it's happened before.
Cut the lights, folks. The definitive name in course certification has filed an amicus brief on behalf of RoJo.
I’ll leave it to the rest of you jokers to google Mr. Katz’s credentials. Hint; he’s one of the top 5 most knowledgable posters here.
One note is that Rojo pointed out the women's winner's split of 15:55 for the segment was a lot faster than her other splits, but he didn't notice that she actually ran a 16:01, just six seconds slower, in the third 5k of the race.
Still looks to me like it was a short segment by .15-.2 miles based on the various runners' splits, though I'd want to know if it marked the breaking point for many runners or they kept up with the leaders.
Another giver of +1 wrote:
The distance made up somewhere else at late notice but split clocks not moved?
Then you'd have an extra slow split.
I wonder if the short course was intentional. We could see a trend of mid major marathons doing this as they all strive to have fast results. I hope the iaaf does its due dilligence in checking the courses. When is the last time a race got proven to be short? It always seems to take months to ratify records due to course measurement when the iaaf should fly someone out to measure the very next day at the latest.
The delay in the ratification of world records on the roads is usually due to waiting for the results of drug testing. Many of the major races, especially the World Majors have their courses measured by at least two IAAF measurers resulting in the course being "pre-verified". In addition, at least one of those measurers are at the race to "validate" that the course that was run was the course measured.
Exact individual paces matters. Here`s why I believe the Abu Dhabi course was correct.
Well.....It`s easy to see the course was correct from the result of Amos Kipruto, the fresh half marathon world record holder
in 58.18. He was "only" second and ran 2:04. He is a runner capable of 2 x 58.18 + 5 min = 2.01. 36 !!!
Coach and paces matters.
Of course the runners name is Abraham Kiptum.
Kvothe wrote:
I wonder if the short course was intentional.
Wonder no longer, if they wanted to intentionally make the course short they wouldn't have published a map of the course and then not run part of the course, they'd lop off the required amount of metres for each on course marker. Anyway, it's impossible to get away with short courses these days what with GPS, Garmins, etc, etc, 500 metres short overall would soon raise a red flag.
rojo was right?
Holy bleep! rojo was right! Hallelujah!
You are the broken clock of T and F.
Rojo,
Great catch. But so you know, it's pronounced Abu DhaBEE.
Carry on
Great detective work Rojo. Now it would be interesting to know why this short cut has happened.
Sure the organizers have the answer. Anyway it can happens. I have run an half marathon measured and certified by Fidal (italian federation) and the course was 21560 metres!!!