You also can't use Pre living off food stamps as a good example because he should have a been professional runner, not "sub-elite." That was the whole point of him fighting the AAU.
You also can't use Pre living off food stamps as a good example because he should have a been professional runner, not "sub-elite." That was the whole point of him fighting the AAU.
And trillions going to foreign countries and foreign banks...
I think you are confusing professional runners who have very minimal shoe contracts with the sub-elite crowd. Almost every runner outside the top 10-15 at the Olympic Trials marathon has a full time job, even if it's just at a running store. There are very few people who are just training at a high level with no form of income coming in. Granted, if you are someone with a very good degree -- Joe Stilin comes to mind...he went to Princeton and I believe has a masters in aerospace engineering or any runner from Stanford who chooses to run professionally -- then you are just throwing money away to run times that place very far from contending for a spot on an Olympic team.
I rather my tax dollars go to putting roofs over American heads and food on American tables
Than people in the Middle East who are going to buy weapons to use against American, camels or headwraps or whatever the f they do with the us tax dollars they receive...
Rarher going to enrich a few (I’m not going to say it but...) European bankers...
Just make sure you watch Alan Grayson’s gearing with Ben Bernancke or the controller of the federal Reserve.
Your tax dollars going to foreign banks and foreign countries.
Even some runners that crack the top 10 at a US championship have full-time jobs. Age and potential certainly play a factor in this, but it is not uncommon for sub 3:40/sub 3:58 1500/milers, sub 13:35 5k, sub 8:35 steeplechasers to have jobs. Some even have begun their very promising career path. I would say most do not work corporate and have flexibility with their schedule.
I would say the road circuit and prize money from certain track meets certainly does help though.
Most people that move to these running communities to “chase the dream” without a financially supportive backing (by getting a somewhat real, well-paying job) fizzle our after a year or two. It’s just a very unsatisfying and unrealistic expectation. You can’t expect to not be at a world class level out of college (or you would have a contract) and become world class with a substantial contract in just one year. It’s foolhardy.
Back in the 80's it was much easier to survive, for two reasons:
Cost of living much less than today
Plentiful opportunities for prize money and some appearance money
Never got rich running sub 2:12 and 28:03, but sure did enjoy my hobby. Feel sad for today's fast guys. It's tough.
Daddy wrote:
A lot of the guys who go pro from Ivy's live off daddy's credit card (Kyle Merber) or a trust fund until they get some sort of partial sponsorship.
Do you know how I can find this trust fund you speak of? My first year as a 'pro' was aided by NJ*NY TC which is a 501(c)3 and to this day, a major mission of the club is to assist newly graduated college runners chase the dream. I had rent covered by living in the team house (there were 7 of us), which we got at a good deal for because a local family cared to help out. We ate as a family every night (Ford would cook) and that helped save some money. Over the course of the 6 years the club was based in New Jersey, we probably had 25 people rotate through that place. Additionally, the club gave me a stipend of maybe $200/month, which more or less went to gym membership+massage and I worked 25 hours/week at the Sneaker Factory selling shoes. That summer I bought my own ticket to Europe and thankfully set some PRs and won some races while over there. After that, HOKA got in touch and I made good money racing domestically that summer so I stopped working.
It doesn't workout for everyone and that's why after 2-3 years people will either have made it or move on. I think you would be shocked to see how many really great runners are working jobs and look no further than the top runners from CIM. Emma Bates is a nanny. Brogan Austin is a project manager. It's extremely impressive by those who can balance both.
possible answers ... wrote:
Possible answers:
1) One or more are trust fund kids.
2) One or more are not necessarily trust fund kids, but parents decide to fund the dream.
3) One or more is supported by a spouse or significant other.
4) Possible successful gambler and/or day trader. [This is highly doubtful.]
5) A half a dozen individuals live Spartan lives in a small rented house. Everyone works a part-time job. All share everything.
6) Engage in illegal activities. [Less likely than true.]
Or they just work a 9-5 and train before and after work.
Don't they get paid tons from blogging and from social media?
KyleMerber wrote:
Daddy wrote:
A lot of the guys who go pro from Ivy's live off daddy's credit card (Kyle Merber) or a trust fund until they get some sort of partial sponsorship.
Do you know how I can find this trust fund you speak of? My first year as a 'pro' was aided by NJ*NY TC which is a 501(c)3 and to this day, a major mission of the club is to assist newly graduated college runners chase the dream. I had rent covered by living in the team house (there were 7 of us), which we got at a good deal for because a local family cared to help out. We ate as a family every night (Ford would cook) and that helped save some money. Over the course of the 6 years the club was based in New Jersey, we probably had 25 people rotate through that place. Additionally, the club gave me a stipend of maybe $200/month, which more or less went to gym membership+massage and I worked 25 hours/week at the Sneaker Factory selling shoes. That summer I bought my own ticket to Europe and thankfully set some PRs and won some races while over there. After that, HOKA got in touch and I made good money racing domestically that summer so I stopped working.
It doesn't workout for everyone and that's why after 2-3 years people will either have made it or move on. I think you would be shocked to see how many really great runners are working jobs and look no further than the top runners from CIM. Emma Bates is a nanny. Brogan Austin is a project manager. It's extremely impressive by those who can balance both.
Lol, pawned!
I know a way...
I always wondered what is the end goal? You cannot make a living doing this unless you're running at least sub 14, 29, 2:20 with some potential run faster. I guess it's a hobby like everyone else albeit a very serious one.
I run sub 2:20. You're not going to make a living, even a meager one unless you're a fair amount under those times. And if you run that fast you don't treat it as a hobby. It is pretty much a second job. Most days I enjoy running but there are days where it is a pain in the ass to get out of bed and go and you know its not going to be an enjoyable run and you'd rather sleep another hour but don't. With hobbies, you get the luxury of sitting the bad days out.
sub elite runner wrote:
I work a 9 to 5 and have a wife and kids. My wife also works and runs and we both spend plenty of time with our kids and each other. It's really not that hard, most schedules are very manageable if you just have some time management skills.
I call BS. Answer one question for me: Who takes care of the kids? It literally can cost more to put one infant in day care ($20k) than college. OK, my friend in Pittsburgh said tha'ts what it cost for 2 kids but it's expensive as heck
By Working A Job wrote:
I'm sub-elite/elite in my mind. Qualified for the past couple USATF outdoor championships with the auto standards as well as relatively high finishes at USATF road championship races. I work 40 hours a week at a career job that I went to school for. Meet with people to train a couple days a week. It is really not that bad. In my opinion it would be kind of a waste of time not to be productive for my future at this point in my life. Running doesn't take 8-10 hours a day. More like 2-3 hours or I'll give your maximum 4 hours if you're doing a ton of rolling out and stretching and getting massage and all the stuff that doesn't directly fall under the 'workout' category. You do have to have good time management though. You've just got a window of a couple hours before work and a few hours after work to really get the training in. If I didn't have a regular job I'd be able to sleep in and run whenever I was ready.
The major benefit about working the regular job is that I don't have to be stressed out about making damn sure I run fast and win a ton of prize money. I run because I enjoy the competition, if the race goes well that's great. If it doesn't, my livelihood isn't hurt at all.
Great example of doing both is Martin Hehir who's in medical school, and Brogan Austin who just won USATF marathon championships while working as a project manager. There are many others that are just under the radar, never winning the USATF titles, but always in the main pack and occasionally finishing really high.
Great post.
Running doesn't take that much time.
Can someone explain the logic of the internet to me. Facebook is all about bragging to your friends about your life but this guy won't even post his name on the messageboard? I love his post. Post your name and you'll have a new fan.
ncrunner25 wrote:
Hello everyone, I’ve been stalking the forums for a while. For the past year, my partner and I train daily and work full time. For the past year, we wake up at 3:30 am M-F and lift (she’s more of a lifter). We finish at 4:20 then we run the dog for 2 miles and bring the dog back. Then we run for 3.1 miles by ourselves. After work, she runs 2 miles by her self and lifts. After school, I run 7-8 miles. I don’t lift again. On the weekends, we don’t lift, but continue our routine. We run daily. We run all of our miles at 7:30 pace. We don’t do workouts. She does 50 miles per week. I am around 70-80 (I cut back a bit because I don’t want to go over 80 miles per week. We sleep at 9 pm. She’s an engineer, I’m a medical student. Goal is to build our base through the Spring and ease in workouts and some 5K races. We’re between 27-25 years of age. In HS, I ran 4:45 for the 1600 m and 10:20 for the 3200 on less than 30 miles a week. Gave up routine running for almost 10 years for pre-med and medical school. Started from stratch over a year ago. Built up from 14 miles a week. Helpful things are that we live in the South (warmer, can always run outside). Goal is to get the OQT by 2024. If not, we’ll be damn good runners and healthy. If you are motivated, you can do it.
Free advice.
Cut out the weighs, give the dogs to your parents and up your mileage from 80 to 120 (assuming you are going for the marathon).
The post below is amazing.... so good. It reminds me of a call I got from Chris Lear a few years ago. "Rojo do you remember how great it was when we got out of college and all we cared about was having rent paid and trying to run fast? Those were the glory days." Indeed. INstead, I read the post below now as a father and think, "How much is he saving for retirement on mid-30s salary."I barely save for it and make more. So yeah, those are my thoughts. A great post but how much do you have for retirement? And what are your PBs? And you say east coast, if you are ever near Baltimore, shoot me an email (actually give me a call as i'm bad with email) and I'll buy you a meal/drink.
subway sandwich elite wrote:
ok... trying again.
To preface this, I do not receive very much active/monetary support from my parents save the following things: 1. they paid for my education, so I have no debt. Things would be much much different if I had debt. 2. I am still on their health insurance, my company does not provide any. 3. As a gift last year, they covered half of a cheap (less than $3000) used car that I was fully financially ready to buy.
Also I am not a marathoner. Track guy.
I have been working a job that pays in the mid 30K's for the past few years. It's not a lot, but it pays the bills and allows me to save for retirement too. I get free shoes from a local store. I live very simply/frugally in the suburbs of a major east coast city in a 2bd apartment with my SO and one other roommate that is at a price point where I found 0 equivalents in Boulder, a few in flagstaff, and many in eugene. The apartment is pretty old and has some slightly dated appliances, but I like it, it gets the job done and is one of the better deals in the area, I think. Despite having a car, I use public transportation every day to save time, money, and stress. I pretty much only use the car to run errands and travel to races, sometimes to go out and do a fun thing on the weekends. The car has been handy for several road trips (both running-related and non-running-related). I eat out maybe once a week and brew my own coffee at home, since people love to talk about how millenials spend $5 on a latte or avocado toast every day or whatever.
I run both before work and after work, which is mostly just a drag when it's been a super stressful day, or it is dark/snowing out. It took a while to get used to that routine though. It's definitely not ideal, mentally tough at times, but certainly not impossible. I have access to a nearby treadmill in case the conditions are truly horrible.
My first several months with my job, I focused on building my emergency fund and minimizing my spending. On a good month, I would only spend about $1000-$1100 between rent, utilities, food, public transport pass, etc. combined, so that allowed me to save up several hundred dollars a month towards an emergency fund, so it grew pretty fast. I also started saving for retirement not long after. Since getting those two things squared away, that has led to me having some extra cash piling up in my checking account (plus I made about $2k in prize money this year, which was a big surprise for me), I have felt much more comfortable living my life. I am not struggling. I am getting by, with a comfortable amount of room for error/risks/splurging on going to a meet I think I gotta go to, or something nice I want to buy, etc.
Do I still sometimes worry about how several of my peers are moving along in their careers while I am kind of putting everything on hold (my current job is definitely not a career path I want to work towards)? yes, sometimes. Do I wish I was sponsored, so I could focus fully on training every day? So I could do both my runs in daylight every day? So I could get some time to go to the gym and lift? Get into all the best meets and have travel and lodging for them covered? Yes, that would be nice, but if I never get to that point, I will be okay with it. I have already accomplished several of my running goals, and when I take a step back, I am really "living that life"... Enjoying life and enjoying running (fast) while I am in the prime of my ability to both run fast and enjoy life. You know? Supporting yourself doesn't mean your running needs to suffer (unless the only job you can get is brutal manual labor). A lot of things that make supporting yourself work (responsible time and money management and a good routine) will help make your running better too. So I would say that being an unsponsored, working sub-elite isn't that crazy. It's not ideal if you want to be actual world-class competitive, so depending on what goals you set for yourself (do the best you can, so you will improve slowly but surely, vs squeeze every possible ounce of improvement out of your body and run the new IAAF standards) it's definitely doable, and not completely crazy/miserable to be a "modern sub-elite" you might say.
If I had to hang up my spikes today, I would be happy with the career I had. If I had to continue working my dead end job doing this for another 2 years still unsponsored, still sub-elite, and then hang up my spikes, I think I would still be happy. another 2 years after that.... ok maybe then I might feel a little bad about getting a late start on an actual career.
I don't think being sub-elite means having to suffer/struggle through your early 20's. You can get by pretty comfortably if you are reasonable about your finances, and learn to step back and enjoy running as much as you can, while you are still young and fast.
KyleMerber wrote:
Do you know how I can find this trust fund you speak of? My first year as a 'pro' was aided by NJ*NY TC which is a 501(c)3 and to this day, a major mission of the club is to assist newly graduated college runners chase the dream. I had rent covered by living in the team house (there were 7 of us), which we got at a good deal for because a local family cared to help out. We ate as a family every night (Ford would cook) and that helped save some money. Over the course of the 6 years the club was based in New Jersey, we probably had 25 people rotate through that place. Additionally, the club gave me a stipend of maybe $200/month, which more or less went to gym membership+massage and I worked 25 hours/week at the Sneaker Factory selling shoes. That summer I bought my own ticket to Europe and thankfully set some PRs and won some races while over there. After that, HOKA got in touch and I made good money racing domestically that summer so I stopped working.
It doesn't workout for everyone and that's why after 2-3 years people will either have made it or move on. I think you would be shocked to see how many really great runners are working jobs and look no further than the top runners from CIM. Emma Bates is a nanny. Brogan Austin is a project manager. It's extremely impressive by those who can balance both.
Kyle, welcome to the club. If you are white and graduate from an Ivy and pursue running, they assume you have a trust fund. Seeing this thread, I called my dad tonight even thoughh I'm 45 and asked, 'when does my trust fund kick in?'
Now as a new dad, I"m amazed by Emma Bates. She's a nanny and just ran 2:28? My god. I take care of my son for about 4-5 hours a day and can't fathom running 1 hour a day. Now admittely I used to run a ton but I don't know how I used to do it. When you are unmarried and without a famly, there is A LOT of free time. I always say I had more free time when I was coaching at Cornell and doing letsrun versus being married and doing letsrun as having a social life and a family take up time if you want to do it right.
sam w wrote:
HRE wrote:
If all else fails they can always get a job. That's what everyone did in the amateur era. I'm not sure why people think you can't do this. Bill Rodgers best marathon when he was working as a special ed teacher was 2:09:55. His best time as a professional runner was 2:09:26. ...
Didn't Bill R once say "no man with a full time job will ever beat me"?
He did indeed and I imagine he probably was right. No matter, he was only 29 seconds faster as a pro. I doubt he'd have managed to win all the things he won if he'd had a job. He probably wouldn't have been able to GO to most of the races he won if he'd had a job. But the thread is about "sub elites" and BR definitely wasn't "sub."
The biggest two things are probably support from parents or another benefactor and living with a bunch of roommates.
RIP: D3 All-American Frank Csorba - who ran 13:56 in March - dead
RENATO can you talk about the preparation of Emile Cairess 2:06
Great interview with Steve Cram - says Jakob has no chance of WRs this year
Hats off to my dad. He just ran a 1:42 Half Marathon and turns 75 in 2 months!
2024 College Track & Field Open Coaching Positions Discussion
Running for Bowerman Track Club used to be cool now its embarrassing