Road Racing and Training Thread Week ending Dec 2 2018 (CIM edition)

outsiderunner wrote:

I have a marathoner’s body (almost identical to Kipchoge, in fact...same height, and within two pounds of his weight).

Kipchoge also won the 5000 metres race at the Kenyan trial for the 2002 World Junior Championships in Athletics, but got ill and missed the championships.

He set a world junior record in the 5000 m at the 2003 Bislett Games, running a time of 12:52.61 minutes. This stood as the world and African junior record until 2012, when it was improved to 12:47.53 minutes by Hagos Gebrhiwet of Ethiopia.

In July he participated in the Golden League 2004 Roma Meeting. In the 5000 m event, he dipped first among the starters with 12:46.53, which made him the sixth-fastest ever in the event.

Kipchoge won a gold medal at the 5000 m final at the 2003 World Championships, outsprinting both future world record holder Kenenisa Bekele and runner-up Hicham El Guerrouj (the world record holder in the 1500 metres and mile) by four hundredths of a second (12:52.79 vs. 12:52.83).

In 2004, Kipchoge won a bronze medal at the 5000 m final at the 2004 Athens Olympics, behind El Guerrouj and Kenenisa Bekele.

Kipchoge won a silver medal at the 5000 m final of the 2007 World Championships at Osaka in 13:46.00, behind Bernard Lagat (13:45.87).

During the 2008 Olympics held in Beijing, China, Kipchoge won a silver medal in the 5000m event with a time of 13:02.80; although better than the previous Olympic record of 13:05.59, it was not enough to match Kenenisa Bekele's pace, who won the gold medal for this race.

He made his debut on the 2010 IAAF Diamond League by winning the 5000 m Qatar Athletic Super Grand Prix in a meet record time.

Kipchoge then went on to enter the Carlsbad 5000 in CA, USA. The Carlsbad 5 km road race is the venue for the world best times for a 5k road race for men and women respectively. Kipchoge made a world best attempt and although he won the race, weather affected his chances and he finished in 13:11, the fourth-fastest ever for the course up to that point in time.

Kipchoge is listed at 5'6" 123lbs. The current 5000m world record holder Kenenisa Bekele is also listed at 5'6" 123lbs.

It does not seem your body type is limiting your ability to be a 5k runner.

Allen- I do Canova math.. so 80% 5K would mean pace x 1.2. I wanted 5:25-:30 pace for the fast stuff and 6:30-:40 for the slow stuff

Bruin- It's not a Yasso 800 workout... it's a Nate Jenkins/Canova/Magness lactate clearance workout. Essentially my lactate management is poor, so the workout forces you to run hard to flood the muscles with lactate and then try to clear it by 'floating" around at still a relatively fast clip. The goal would be to close the difference between the fast and the slow stuff.

OR- if you thought the 5K was a "pleasant" experience, then I would say you didn't go hard enough!

Gordon Tremeshko wrote:

HHH Runner wrote:

I guess that's what happens when you race after 10 days off and 22 miles in 2+ weeks. It's like the day after my first ever marathon. Worse even.

HHH, I think that's what happens when you race a half marathon after getting hit by a motorcycle.

I giggled. I know I'm going to hell with this, but I giggled...

I have actually studied a lot of Tinman type training and that is it - never really extending yourself, keeping things consistent, and being in control most all of the time. The long runs were the cornerstone of Brogan's build for sure, but the other workouts were very controlled.

If you look at the training of his group in Boulder, it looks very, very similar to Brogan's, except the weekly long run is capped at 2 hours. Other than that, most of the stuff is very similar aside from a few more specific workouts for the guys running the shorter stuff.

Also interesting to note, never more than 60' run on any double day. I know in old posts Tinman advocated no more than 70' ever, if running doubles, but to see it in action and no more than 60' with Brogan is very interesting.

A bit late, but here is my week...

M49, 5’,6”, 125

M: 10.26 at 6:42 overall...windy...some tough running

T: 11.25 at 6:44 overall...hilly...6:33, 6:33, 6:30, 6:02 to finish

W: 8.5 at 6:34 overall...windy, cold...6:26, 6:19, 6:01.7, 3:01.9 to finish

T: off

F: 13.13 in 1:26:27 (6:35 overall)...hilly, cold...legs felt strong in second half...6:21, 6:23, 6:22, 6:15, 5:46, 46.8 to finish

Sat.: 10.13 at 6:49 overall...hilly...felt harder than it should have...6,26, 5:57.5 to finish

Sun: 2.25 at 7:10 overall (warm-up)...South Berkeley Christmas 5k...3.1 at 5:36.8 overall (17:26.4)

58 miles

cocoon: Congratz on the 1 minute negative split! Just shows you really paced the race well. I had a similar 1 minute negative split at NYC which I feel was due to proper pacing. I may run CIM next year after Tokyo so will have to ask you for advice on pacing strategy.

Great week CIM runners!

A training partner (Ok, I do easy runs with him!) qualified for the OTs at CIM, it was pretty fun watching him crank out even splits. More fun that watching Alabama the night before, but I digress.

My week:

Sunday: XC "fun run" over 2-3 inches of slushy snow on a tough xc course. I got lost a few times, and ended up 2nd. 607 pace for 3.25 miles. Then I drove home quickly and did a tempo on the treadmill for the second part of the workout. (10 total)

Saturday: 5 miles easy

Friday: 14.5 in cold rain/snow/sleet Burritos after.

Thursday: 8/3 double (both easy)

Wednesday: 3.5/6.5 double (both easy

Tuesday. 6 easy, 6x400, .5 easy. Did the 400s via gps on the road. 78, 75,77,78, 75,73. (9.5 total)

Monday: 8 easy

68 total

Jeremy R wrote:

OR- if you thought the 5K was a "pleasant" experience, then I would say you didn't go hard enough!

Jeremy - Yes, you are probably right!

Bruin - 111.6...yeesh...that’s a big number. I like big numbers. Lookout, Tokyo.

Should also add...I like all big numbers, including those big numbers that are small numbers.

So I'm 144lbs (5'6"). If I was 20 lbs lighter like OR, would i be running low 16s in the 5K assuming equivalent fitness? Should I try to really trim down?!?!

JeremyR: Thanks for explaining the lactate clearance workout. I learn so much about training from runners on LetsRun. I am 5'6" too but 122 lbs. Losing 35+ pounds has really helped me with my racing times(I ran a 4:12 marathon 2 1/2 years ago when I was 158 lbs). You might want to check out a book called Racing Weight by Matt Fitzgerald which focuses on healthy diets to optimize performance for endurance athletes.

J - You wanna drop some weight I have the diet for you Brother.

runrincerepeat wrote:

J - You wanna drop some weight I have the diet for you Brother.

It's why I first went vegetarian. To get back into shape after a 3 month lay off with a serious stress fracture.

I'm 5' 11" and about 144lbs for reference. Probably 141-2 when the motorcycle hit me!!

And Puto, GT, the rest who commented on my crappy race, THANK YOU. You're right. It was ok given the circumstances and I appreciate keeping me grounded.

Jeremy R wrote:

So I'm 144lbs (5'6"). If I was 20 lbs lighter like OR, would i be running low 16s in the 5K assuming equivalent fitness? Should I try to really trim down?!?!

I think you would be VERY fast (and dangerous) if you shed some more weight. Already, you have done a great job with that. Twenty pounds might be tough to lose, but even at 135, you would be able to light up a lot of people.

cocoon nonchalantly wrote:

30K to finish

- Had the best section of my race.

cocoon: This! I think any one of us would LOVE to be able to wrap up a race report with that line! Epic! Negative splitting on a bum leg is really no small feat. You guys have me champing at the bit...

So it's weird that I have forgotten to post my week...

Male, 50 yo, 5’7”, 129 (!) lbs

Goals: sub 3:00 marathon.

Upcoming Races: Gomach HM 3/3 (6 weeks out from...) Boston 2019

M: 12k E Hilly

T: 13k E Commute

W: 18k Daniels 2Q Test Drive: 6.5km WU + 5 x 1km Strava GAP (3:50, :45, :52, :48, :54) (Targeting 3:48-3:52) + 4 x 400 (88, 88, 84, 83) (Targeting 86) + 2km CD

T: 11.5k = E Commute with Macondabak

F: 15.4k E Flat

S: Rest (Ha! another 13 hour work day!)

S: 22k: 725m Elevation gain: 1.4k uphill E + 2.7k uphill HRmar + 1.9k downhill E + 3.2k uphill HRmar + 3.5k uphill HRthresh + 9.3 downhill E

Total: 8:49 - 92k - 3380 ft

Highlights: I really enjoyed the Sunday run. One of my favorite routes on a beautiful day! And a pretty good workout, too. Two good workouts this week but feeling good. Everything next week low heat simmersimmersimmer, then it’s time for 2Q.

Lowlights: It’s hard for me to come up with anything. Gained a bit of weight? I’m feeling pretty good.

Uncertainlights: Kinda got a promotion of sorts at work. Head Coach Jeff ROC. A little more money, a little less time and flexibility, but only a little on both counts. Shouldn't have any ill effects on my training. (God, we're a strange lot...)

Sunday's Workout:

https://imgur.com/ZuMPt7u

Just saw this over on the 50+ thread:

SCgal wrote:

Meant to send kudos to CM on being named M60-64 USATF Road Runner of the Year and to SoCal Cush for his honorable mention for Master Harrier of the Year. Congratulations guys and good luck in WA!

Congratulations Coyote Montane and SoCal Cush!

Allen1959 wrote:

Just saw this over on the 50+ thread:

SCgal wrote:

Meant to send kudos to CM on being named M60-64 USATF Road Runner of the Year and to SoCal Cush for his honorable mention for Master Harrier of the Year. Congratulations guys and good luck in WA!

Congratulations Coyote Montane and SoCal Cush!

Big, big honors, and so big, big congrats!

HHH Runner wrote:

I'm 5' 11" and about 144lbs for reference.

I'm 5'11" and about 166. If I lost 22 lbs would I see the other side of 17:00 for 5K?! I'd be happy with the other side of 19:00, to be honest ...

Weight is a tricky thing. I do think that it makes a difference, but I don't think getting to the weight at which you'd be your fastest is really the best thing for your overall health. And I think it would actually be counterproductive for some of us. Jeremy and I weigh roughly the same and I'm 2 inches taller. But we have completely different body types. I'm all skinny arms and legs and yet have worse shoulders and hips and no muscle. He's more compact and, while he has a more barrow frame, he carries a lot more muscle. If I went under 140, I think it would negatively impact my health and my racing. I think the same is likely true for him. His body carries that muscle because that is how it's programmed. He doesn't even really lift. He'd have to starve the muscle off.

There is no universally ideal weight. Work with what you've got.