Road Racing and Training Thread Week ending Dec 2 2018 (CIM edition)

More negativity (or hate?) here, I guess. I thought we were beyond that. There is a lot here I could criticize in the same manner, but have chosen not to.

Smoove wrote:

100% agree. I am just saying that there is no point in criticizing him actually running the way he does. It is a valid choice. But if people have a bone to pick with him constantly asking for advice he will then ignore or his advocating his approach to running to others, I see that as perfectly fair ground. I recognize that RRR doesn't dig on the dairy, I recognize that advocating pizza as a the base of someone else's food pyramid, or asking for tips on pizza making over and over and then ignoring them is very different than digging on some fine pizza (which, all metaphors aside, has actually been my dinner for 6 of the last 10 nights - I have no idea how I have only gone up to 147-148 since Chicago).

I should also add...not only is this string of comments highly condescending, but I am particularly surprised by you, Smoove. Not only have I taken advice from people here, but your "over and over again" phrasing is getting highly repetitive, in addition to being highly offensive.

Stopped reading when I saw the word country. Ha.

Outside Runner, come on, lighten up man. There is clearly something you feel the need to prove to thread (or really probably yourself). But you’re already doing great. And there’s clearly no intention of changing anything up, so why not just let the running do the talking?

My goal is not to insult you or make you feel condescended to, but if you feel that way, that's on you, not on me and I really don't care. Especially since your sense of decorum seems to be intact only when you are the subject of discussion. For example, when too hot spews his truly offensive and actually inaccurate vitriol, we don't hear a peep from you (because he speaks positively of your training, perhaps? I don't know).

You consistently ask for advice and guidance, yet your basic approach to training remains unchanged in all key ways: you run a progression on a daily basis. The paces may have shifted here or there, but the essence is the same. I don't care that your training doesn't deviate from that essential approach. But you do constantly ask for advice and disregard it. You can own that or ignore it.

slo - Good comment, and I agree with most of what you say. I guess I was disappointed in that I made one comment to stat, and a valid one at that, and then the floodgates opened on me. It seems to me that there is a double-standard, and that is what bothers me sometimes. Regarding changing up, that is where I would have to point out that, while I share a lot with you guys here, you certainly cannot read my mind (perhaps Allen could, on occasion). I have, in fact, thought of handing myself over to someone such as Stone, and have been thinking about it a lot lately--that is, of course, if he would have me. Yes, I like doing things my own way, but, honestly, the main thing that concerns me with being coached or using a more structured system is that winter weather (or summer weather) can wreak havoc on a schedule. As I have said in the past, to me there is no point in using a schedule if one is changing it all the time.

Thanks again for your thoughts and for taking the time to comment constructively.

Your training has been a center of attention and comments on this thread for months and year(s) Rehashed over and over. You seem to enjoy the attention the training gets.. so just gotta take the good comments w the perceived bad..

Interesting and curious comments, Smoove. Your mention of too hot is puzzling. Why would that even apply here, and who have you defended me against lately? Your comments were condescending and inaccurate, as anyone can see. I have already mentioned that I have taken advice from people here (that is where your comments are inaccurate), and your use of language, piling on in a string of other comments, is where the condescension lies. You are a smart guy, and should see that. You should take your own advice and own what you say.

There was no negativity or hate intended towards OR. I was actually taking a self-deprecating swipe at someone else. Sorry if that wasn’t clear.

In other news, the weather here today was reminiscent of Boston 2018 (~40F and constant rain), and true to form the giraffe uncorked a flyer. Will post it tomorrow.

First, I am not obliged to take anything. Second, I have taken much here, but it is the tone and the double-standard that is problematic. Even in your couple of lines, you dismiss what I have to say and call it "perceived." If you do not like that people comment on my training, I cannot help you with that. This is a voluntary forum, and neither you nor I have to be here.

You’re doing great man. But, yeah, I don’t really foresee any change happening. And that’s cool. You’ve mentioned doing a lot of thinking before but, whatever the rationalization may be, the change doesn’t happen. But prove me wrong! Or don’t. Either way great. Just don’t get all triggered and unreasonable every time someone accurately calls you out on something.

Really I think it’s a fear of an unknown.

Also for all the bashing you do of running plans and structure, I have to say that, to my eyes, your training is the most structured of probably anyone’s on the thread. That’s not a negative. But maybe a little perspective and detachment could help. Just a suggestion. Which you are free to disregard!

When targeting a race I might have a plan for general sense of areas of focus for certain periods beforehand and even certain specific workouts. But nothing is fixed. It evolves based on weather, recovery, progress, strengths and weaknesses that are revealed through training.

I’m not telling you to train like that. But maybe try to understand it better before knocking it. Again, you don’t have to prove anything. Your progress speaks for itself.

I did not take it that way, AJ, and so no need for you to explain. You were the last person to post (at that moment), but I was not responding to you. I was responding to those who had posted ahead of you. Sorry that I was not clear on that.

Please remind me of the adjustments you have made to your training approach. I remember you trying to go to the track once, and maybe a workout in place of that track session that deviated from the basic "progression run" approach; but I can't think of much else, to be honest.

As to defending you, I have noted a few times that folks should let you train how you like as it makes you happy.

As to too hot, it goes to your sense of what is appropriate and what deserves to be spoken out against revolving around you.

It isn't condescending to say that you ask for advice all of the time, is it? I think that is a fairly neutral statement of fact.

So is it my saying that you ignore the advice that you are given over and over that you find to be condescending? You may respond to my first comment above and prove it inaccurate, but even then, inaccuracy is not condescension.

Thanks again, slo, and you are right that my training is already quite structured. I guess I should have said "polarized" or "scheduled" or perhaps some other more proper and/or specific term. Sure, there is fear of the unknown. Everyone is susceptible to that. Honestly, I do not think I was being unreasonable in what I had said to stat, and, likewise, what I have said to Smoove. I think the reason was unreasonable. After all, I was called names..a "one-trick pony (again)," and Smoove added on with his "over and over" comments (again). In any case, this is the Internet, and so things can get lost in translation. Such is why I think there is no need for name-calling or other obviously "triggering" commentary. I share a lot with you guys, and have always be up-front and honest. so, I thought I deserved better.

Peace and happy running to you, my friend.

I meant to say: "The reaction was unreasonable."

Greatness. Of course, I can see the “one trick pony” thing being offensive and of course unnecessarily harsh... but is it really inaccurate? I guess that’s the question. I think we’d agree that perhaps you can get “triggered” pretty easily?

Also, to be fair, I agree with Smoove on your too hot double standard. As far as I can remember, you’ve never called too hot out despite him clearly being completely inaccurate and way out of line? Yet stat takes the time to break some things down for you and it seemed like you went on a bit of an emotional rollercoaster then and again today.

Anyway, keep on keeping on and I look forward to you breaking 2:45 at Boston! How’s the GoFundme coming along?

Smoove - You are a lawyer, and I do not want to go back and forth with you. A few months ago, pewow gave a list of adjustments I had made up to that time (pewow, where are you, my friend?). And here we go again with wording and condescension, that you do subtly, but it is there...saying that I "tried" to "go to the track once." Come on, Smoove. Do I say to you that you have "tired" a progression run? I do not use such language with you, ever. I have respect for what you have done, and I try to express that, and have expressed it on many occasions, regardless of any disagreement.

Again, I would rather just not get into anything with you and have peaceful conversation.

Maybe this really is an internet issue, because there was nothing condescending about saying you tried to go to the track - you literally tried to go to the track and it didn't work out because something was happening there. You did some sort of variation of a track workout as a result., That was truly an acknowledgement of the one time that I can think of you doing something different than your standard progression approach.

Please provide the list of adjustments though - you must know them since you made them. It is the crux of your apparent displeasure with me, so I would like to understand what I missed. I genuinely mean that, althoug it is definitely in part because I really don't think that there has been any significant change. You've been doing progression runs pretty much day in and day out, and my impression is that you essentially acknowledged that early when you talked about how you have been training this way for 2 years or so (paraphrasing).

outsiderunner wrote:

First, I am not obliged to take anything. Second, I have taken much here, but it is the tone and the double-standard that is problematic. Even in your couple of lines, you dismiss what I have to say and call it "perceived." If you do not like that people comment on my training, I cannot help you with that. This is a voluntary forum, and neither you nor I have to be here.

Perception is a powerful thing. Here is what I meant. If you stay thin skinned.. it’s gonna be a long row to hoe.

How you can think what I said to you as dismissing what you have said.. is reading a lot into it. I don’t really care how you train. It seems to make you happy.. so do it to it. What does frustrate people as the thread regularly devolves into an OR centric training discussion which never accomplished anything

OR you’re fighting an uphill battle here. They will continue to belittle what does not conform to the flavor of the day or as you put it once the ivory towers.