Increasing of the amount of people quiting veganism: (formerly the vegan runner on YouTube has quit veganism)

S. Canaday wrote:

Why do you think tofu is a horrible source of protein? Again though nobody was ever worried about protein. Japanese marathoners seem to be doing quite well.

Japanese include seafood such as fish, prawns, other shell fish, squid and octopus (maybe even baby whales and dolphins) in their diet. They also eat meat and chicken but not often or in large quantities. Their staple food is a bowl of rice or noodles with every meal.

I think the #1 takeaway from this thread is that diet is highly individualized and biological and genetic factors predispose some to success and others to failure on the vegan diet. All diets focused on whole foods, whether vegan or omnivorous, will yield much better results than the standard western diet. The human body is incredibly resilient and will generally adapt to any whole food diet it’s given. Anthropology shows that we are opportunistic omnivores. When the hunting was good, we ate lots of meat. And when the fish weren’t biting or the men weren’t bringing home the bacon, we ate lots of plants. We can thrive on both. But at no point in human history did we eat processed foods!

So if you do religiously believe in the merits of the vegan diet, walk the walk rather than preach. If you’re a low-key vegan who is the healthiest, happiest, fittest person in your social circle, others will take note and follow suit. Live by example, but realize that 100% plant-based will not work for everyone. Hating on others who legitimately try veganism and fail is pretty messed up.

Tyrone ReXXXing wrote:

I am only here defending vegans/vegetarians against bizarre, pseudo-scientific rants, that don't hold up to scrutiny.

And no, I didn't look at those vids. Because I promise you can I can find 100 other videos of folks saying veganism SAVED their health and lives, and 100 others people saying high red meat/low carb diets crushed their health. So much for anecdotes, you'll find them all over the spectrum of beliefs.

If you would listen to those interviews they all said they felt better on a vegan diet for the first year or so. But like all vegans, the longer they are on this diet the worse there health deteriorate. And, veganism as far as being a healthy diet is pseudoscience. And, to recommend it to runners is BS.

Tyrone ReXXXing wrote:

Here is a steak eater (in fact, prior to this specific fight, he was beefing up on....BEEF...."steak for breakfast" as his coach put it, because he was moving up 2 weight classes) tapping out to a....wait for it... long time vegan !!. Watch it and weep......with laughter.

Nate Diaz is "not 100% vegan".

Last week I drove by a 5k stretch of farm that had 40 cows. How many cars? 400. Vegans environmental argument is retarded.

vegan propaganda wrote:

If you would listen to those interviews they all said they felt better on a vegan diet for the first year or so. But like all vegans, the longer they are on this diet the worse there health deteriorate. And, veganism as far as being a healthy diet is pseudoscience. And, to recommend it to runners is BS.

Great job posting studies with no analysis. Let's break these down for the readers. I'll jump around the studies in no particular order:

The Plant vs. Animal Protein Study

This study is a great reason why you need to read the full text. I was already familiar with this citation so I'll give you the main takeaway. What they were analyzing in the results of other studies were single-plant-sources of protein, which isn't realistic. Most people consume multiple types of protein, like pea, wheat, etc. all together in a meal. So, the worry of not getting enough leucine is moot since the combination and AA recycling ensures that protein requirements are met by varied plant protein intake. Here's a quote from the full text:

"Although the consumption of a mixture of plant- and animal-based protein sources is generic to most individuals, vegans consume a strictly plant-based diet. In the case of plant-based protein blends it may be that the consumption of a well-balanced combination of multiple plant-based protein sources, to allow for ingestion of a “complete” EAA profile, may improve the postprandial MPS response when compared with the ingestion of a single plant-based protein source."

Next is: Dietary Protein and MMI Study

This study wrongly concludes that animal protein may be better than other sources (?) based on weak r2 and p values. To put it simply, an r2 value means that the variable can only explain 19% of the variance in the data. So, animal protein as in independent predictor of MMI could only explain 19% of the data, and the p value was so absurdly low (0.008) that it explains nearly none of the data. I'm not even sure what protein sources they were comparing animal protein other than "vegetal". I'm not really sure why the researchers made such bold and unfounded conclusions on that meager data. Also, your post was about this diet for runners, not the elderly, so the study isn't too relevant to your claim that the diet isn't appropriate to runners (who are mostly younger than the study age 66+-5).

Next is: Dietary Protein sources over lifetime

I'm really not sure why you included this one. It has nothing to do with vegetarianism, veganism, plant protein, or even running. All it talked about was animal protein consumption and muscle mass over ones life. It didn't even compare animal protein to plant protein. The fact that they found animal protein intake to be necessary for MMI preservation doesn't mean that plant protein intake isn't equal in necessity; they didn't even study plant protein and its effects!

Next is: SC and criminal behavior

This one was an interesting read and something I was unaware of until this point. Thanks for posting it. I found some other interesting studies that pointed to the same idea of low serum cholesterol being associated with depression/aggression (I'll post them below).

This one is an odd one for me. I'd like to see what the values of their HDL vs. LDL were for each study before saying more about it, as I think this phenomenon can be broken down into the separate values or as a relationship between the two of them, rather, than one problem posed by the serum of the two.

All in all, it's a compromise you have to make. As your serum cholesterol begins to go over 150, your risk of CVD increases. Beyond that number it increases accordingly. The risk of CVD is grave for many, many people in Western nations.

I have to go coach my track team so I'll post more later if I get a chance. Word for the wise, everyone: read the full text of the abstract you are referencing. Be skeptical of each side and you will find the truth.

For the curious:

Update video

https://youtu.be/jglrJxlEI7s

facts and reason wrote:

Tyrone ReXXXing wrote:

Here is a steak eater (in fact, prior to this specific fight, he was beefing up on....BEEF...."steak for breakfast" as his coach put it, because he was moving up 2 weight classes) tapping out to a....wait for it... long time vegan !!. Watch it and weep......with laughter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02M39kqWheo&t=4

Nate Diaz is "not 100% vegan".

and....?? So lemme guess: the fact that he occasionally eats eggs, but eats 99% vegan, especially leading up to his fights where he goes 100%, completely negates the point that this 99%-vegan can kick the a$$ of 99.9999% of meat eaters? No, no it doesn't. And his brother Nick, who can also kick the a$$ of 99.9999% of meat eaters, has been vegan for well over a decade, and I think is even more committed to it.

This isn't a purity test.

yes, vegan and vegetarian diets are TERRIBLE for athletes. And that's why so many successful athletes have succeeded on these diets, or are switching to these diets-

https://www.ranker.com/list/athletes-who-are-vegan/people-in-sports

https://www.businessinsider.com/elite-athletes-who-are-vegan-and-what-made-them-switch-their-diet-2017-10

https://www.greatveganathletes.com/

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/31/why-nfl-players-and-other-athletes-are-going-vegan.html

https://www.thisisinsider.com/athletes-who-are-vegan-2018-7

https://www.livekindly.co/top-vegan-athletes/

https://www.mensjournal.com/food-drink/what-7-elite-vegan-athletes-eat-get-and-stay-ultra-jacked/

Eat the steak, ditch the cake!

YMMV wrote:

Eat the steak, ditch the cake!

Fvck off, racist turd.

i87i wrote:

Fvck off, racist turd.

It's ok, that's just your brain going haywire from the deficiencies caused by eating a vegan diet. Eat a steak, do it for your mental health.

eat steak, not tofu wrote:

i87i wrote:

Fvck off, racist turd.

It's ok, that's just your brain going haywire from the deficiencies caused by eating a vegan diet. Eat a steak, do it for your mental health.

It's OK, YMMV, we know you are a 62 year old virgin because no woman would dare mate with your rotten-toothed self.

urjshrth wrote:

eat steak, not tofu wrote:

It's ok, that's just your brain going haywire from the deficiencies caused by eating a vegan diet. Eat a steak, do it for your mental health.

It's OK, YMMV, we know you are a 62 year old virgin because no woman would dare mate with your rotten-toothed self.

Losing teeth is a vegan thing. Go to 6:58:

I tried veganism while training for a marathon last year, and long story short, it doesn't work. It might work out okay if you are jogging slowly, but it doesn't work if you want to run fast. Sadly I didn't realize this for a while until it was pointed out to me by several people including my coach and some well known elite runners. While pursuing a vegan diet while trying to run 50+ miles a week, I was miserable even though my blood work was normal (normal levels of vitamin B12, ferritin, etc). Tired all the time, cold all the time especially in the winter, and started having random muscle twitches all over.

That being said, I still maintain a diet that is mostly plant-based, but make sure to get in a lot of animal-based protein that isn't necessarily meat. Chicken maybe 1-2x a week, fish 1-4x a week, and eggs almost daily. Don't do dairy products at all due to lactose intolerance.

nmRUNNERgirl wrote:

It might work out okay if you are jogging slowly, but it doesn't work if you want to run fast.

Thanks for sharing your account. Do you have evidence that it was the diet preventing you from running fast vs. inadequate sleep or another factor? Many strength-based and explosive power athletes thrive on plant-based nutrition, so there’s no reason to believe it would have inhibited you from doing marathon workouts. Carl Lewis, while not a lifelong vegan, went plant-based later in his career and still owned it at the Olympics. And guys like Sage are still very fast compared to 99% of posters here.

nmRUNNERgirl wrote:

Tired all the time, cold all the time especially in the winter, and started having random muscle twitches all over.

That sucks, and I understand why you had a bad experience eating vegan. Because plants are less calorically-dense and more volume and fiber-rich, many people undereat on a vegan diet. These symptoms sound like caloric deficiency or just inadequate sleep. But obviously only a medical professional with more information would know for sure. Many people who struggle on a vegan diet feel better when returning to including animal products simply because they are eating more calories.

why does no vegan ever mention the moral aspect of why they are vegan which if they were consistent they would say 'i dont care whether being vegan has a detrimental effect n my performance i can not morally consume meat' i mean if they wernt morally against consuming animals they would not be vegan.