Tyrone ReXXXing wrote:
I'm not even vegan. I just get tired of people holding up a diet for obese people to lose weight as being some sort of healthy diet. If you want health, you need a varied diet containing fruits, veggies, whole grains and sure throw in a little meat here in there if you so wish. But LCHF is not a healthful diet, the science is clear on this.
Nice post. Exactly what I have been saying. But Mr Kool-Aid Keto Klown, YMMV, is too far deep into his fad to see otherwise. I'm not close to being a vegan, so I am just defending the science here (and people like Sage), it's not my diet.
And as far as him continuing to think those other posts were mine (NONE of them were. I've only posted under my name on this thread. 100% fact.), it shows his paranoia and projection onto others (because ironically, I guarantee he's posted under other names here, the writing style and talking points are just too obvious). But not me. I actually think before I post, so that's why I don't knock out of tons of posts in an hour. And this is about his religion, not mine
Believe it or not I was listening to the podcast he posted this morning. Interesting story. And yes, interesting that some ultra guys can do well off a low carb (in training, not racing) diet. Are they better on it than on high carb? Not necessarily that I see (they all seemed to have a lot of success before the new diet). Are they better than the high carb athletes? Not really (sometimes, occasionally, but there are more star high carbers than low carbers).
So what did they teach us? That one *can* do well off a low carb diet. Certain ultra runners can do this. That is interesting. Admittedly, I wouldn't have probably believed that 10 years ago. So kudos to them. But have they proved it to be superior to a high carb mixed/ominvore, or high carb vegetarian diet? NO, they have not. Not even necessarily for themselves. They were good before, and good after. There are quite possibly other reasons/changes they made in their lives/diets that led to their slight improvement. These n=1 tests are not rigorous experiments.
But honestly, good for them for experimenting with themselves, bucking the trend, and succeeding off a less common diet. I mean that. But again: they have not proved, in any way shape or form, that high fat diets are better, for most people, for performance, weight loss, or health. This simply has not been close to being proven, despite the fanatical rhetoric and testimonials and "debunkings" of the paleo/primal/keto/taubesian cult. Yes, they have proven that high fat diets can be *as good* for *some* in weight loss, and in endurance performance, and in the case of fairly high UNsaturated fat diets (e.g., mediterranean) even for overall health. But this "could be/maybe as good as" is a FAR CRY for their claims of clear superiority in health, performance, weight loss and everything else under the sun. A far, far cry. And as far as health, there is zero proof that a high SAT fat/high red meat diet is superior for overall health compared to a low or no red meat diet. None.
But, if one wants to roll the dice with a high red meat/high sat fat/very low carb (no whole grains or legumes or fruits), then by all means, roll that dice. It's your life. But there is very little reason, beyond the echo chamber of paleo/primal cult blogs, that you will improve performance, weight loss, or health on the diet.....*for the reasons they state.* (i.e., if you go low carb, and simultaneously cut 1000 calories from your diet, it wasn't the carb cutting per se that got you there, it was the calorie cut, and you could have achieved that in different ways. And if you cut out "all sugar" "and starches" and think was the magic of your weight loss, you may have ignored that you ALSO cut out tons of fat from cheese and peperoni on your starchy pizza, and all lard/fat from the desserts you were eating, i.e, you cut carbs AND fat, and definitely cut calories, and replaced them veggies and lean protein. Again, it wasn't the carbs per se that were making you overweight. And if you get excited about finding "The Way" of primal, start believing in your new super-diet, and because of that start going to bed earlier, working out harder, and cutting out alcohol (in your mind, a "grain/carb"), and voila, you are running better, it isn't because you went low carb per se. It's the other reasons: cut calories, cut junk food (which are often high carb AND high fat), cut alcohol, lost weight, got more sleep, got serious about your training, etc, etc. )
And YMMV, you are 62 but behave like a 13 year old bully.
Grow up. 'Bout time!