Well, the other problem with your argument is that you expect anyone to believe that runners can sustain 100+mpw for years and years at the elite and sub elite level all while consuming strictly plants which according to you our bodies cannot absorb the nutrients from. Explain how this would be biologically possible given how impossible it supposedly is to eat vegan and not end up with a list of ailments that can be cured by a single steak.
Your body reacts to sugar the same way as alcohol. So, when all of you vegans get non alcoholic fatty liver diseases don't say I didn't warn you.
I have a BS from Cornell...where i did take a number of nutrition, bio, engineering, and chem courses. That is beside the point though. You think the massive amounts of cows we have on this planet are not bad for the environment? It isnt just the methane release...its all the grain and land and water we use to produce beef and dairy on a mass scale. Its the transportation and processing of all these products that causes a lot of waste of resouces and pollution. It is terribly inefficient and not sustainable. The human body doesnt need beef and cow’s milk to survive. If anything it makes a lot of people sick. I’m not an environmentalist though...I’m flying back from Hong King now. International plane flights are also horrible for the environment . What is alarming is that you to not seem to accurately write about basic science when it comes to these environmental concerns and energy transfer. This is much more clear cut than The scientific studies on diet.
YMMV wrote:
S. Canaday wrote:
Re: The whole “body cannibalizing itself”
...seriously?! If you eat a balanced vegan diet protein is not a concern! Why are we so obessed and worried about protein? It is like in the movie Idiocracy when people aimlessly state “ buuut its got electrolytes.” Yeah we need essential aminos. Most Americans eat way too much protein though! Doctors in the US basically only diagnose problems with “low protein” in anorexics...who are basically just not eating enough calories.
Again, i hate the “n=1” stories because that qualifies as a “horrible experiment”, but for reference I’ve been a born and raised vegetarian (99% vegan the past 4 years). I’ve run 5 sub 2:20 marathons. I’ve never had an overuse injury take me out for more than 2 weeks in my 20 year running career. Some of that is likely genetics...but diet can influence genes.
At 33 i feel exactly the same as I did at 23.
That doesnt matter though. It is basic science that the human body is designed to thrive mainly on carbs (and of course some fat) for fuel. Can people survive on keto/fat burning? Of course. That is what cavemen did as a survival mechanism. Why would we want to live like a caveman nowadays? Their health was horrible and life expectancy was relatively very short.
Just wait another 10-15 years when cancer rates get even worse and heart disease is still a #1 killer in the US because of the “high fat, high animal protein and low carb” diet fads going on now.
No wonder we need to focus more on STEM in the US. People really have trouble evaluating legit science.
Sage- what exactly is your STEM backround? Mine is Environmental Physiology at the graduate level.
Your understanding of "basic science" is the inverse of reality. Ketones are far less toxic in their metabolism than sugar (which all carbohydrates are broken down to before metabolism, a fact that seems to elude you). Ketones were the mainstay of metabolism for hunter-gatherers; sugar was an ephemeral and temporary expedient between productive kills.
I won't bother to address your now-routine smokescreen of straw men until you address my counterargument on why bovine metabolism is not a factor in any climate change whatsoever (which in any case is rendered moot by the fact that humans only contribute 1-2% of the non-toxic gas, CO2, to the atmosphere. The most significant "greenhouse gas" is H2O).
I could spend all day debating and disproving 99% of what you anti-vegan/anti-carb, super-pro-meat zealots have to say, but: A) I don't the time nor the energy B) I could cite 100 very robust/well designed studies proving my points and you'd ignore everyone with a wave of your hand, and cling even harder to your diet religion Having said that, I will pick some points here and there to counter-
YMMV wrote:
TR- You keep talking about "fad diet" and "belief system" yet have no clue whatsoever where I am coming from, evident from your verbal stabbings in the dark, and are completely unable to categorize my supposed dogma because it doesn't exist. You yourself are locked into old dogma based on dated "science" which never was worth the name and has been thoroughly debunked in recent years, but you are defensively locked in and going the way of the proverbial dinosaur (T Rex, indeed).
Wrong, your diet ramblings are nearly identical to every high-fat, anti-carb, pro keto, pro fat adapt, pro Taubes, pro Cordain/paleo person I've ever read: same untrue arguments (carbs are poison, animal sat fats are super nutrients!, etc), same sources, same researcher heroes, same blog references, same youtube channels, and on and on. I've got you pegged, and it bothers you. And newsflash: most of the supposed "debunked" viewpoints that you speak of are not actually debunked at all. I know, but " What if everything you ever learned about diet was wrong?!" and sexy titles like that hooked you, and now.....you're a convert.
I am thrilled that this young man is finding a way out of his former dogma-based ways. no one apprised of the facts can deny that pure veganism is anything but a belief-based dogma) and continues to heal from his maladies (many of which I suffered myself) and goes on to run fast races that reflect his true abilities. He is going to be rewarded well for being open to the new realities.
lol. Veganism is well backed by science as a healthful diet, as long as certain pitfalls (b12) are corrected. For every former vegan that claims to have "healed himself", like this dude, with going back to meat, there is a heavy meat eater who "cures himself of his maladies" (or claims to) by dropping meat and going vegan. The fact that you don't realize this is hilarious. For every anti-vegan anecdote you can pull out of the internet, I will find several going the other way.
YMMV wrote: If I had had the benefits of the wealth of information on the internet today (which must be sifted from the chaff) when I was his age
. Again, funny. It's the wealth of DIS-information on the internet that has led your gullible and fad-driven nature to seek out a new, SUPER diet. And then you can surround yourself with like minded people as you all preach to the choir and slam anyone who challenges your new religion. It used to be veganism, and now it's keto.....what's next?
[/quote] Veganism is just one extreme branch of a withering and dying, but very massive and profitable, tree. [/quote]
The meat industry is as powerful and profitable as any of the other food industries. Paleo diets are HUGE $-makers. Every diet prophet that preaches these beliefs on their blogs are making $ (or trying to ) off pushing this philosophy. Don't be so gullible and conspiracy minded.
The current status quo of institutional medicine and "nutrition" is being shown to be the modern-day equivalent of medieval bloodletting and use of leeches to extract "evil humours". Stains are the pill form of leeches meant to extract evil cholesterol humours, but are even more effective in extracting money from a broad swath of gullible victims. It is a modern catastrophe which fortunately for a few has a clear way out.
Quite hilarious. Some pills are over-prescribed, and some have side effects that are hidden, but you've displayed your scientific ignorance in clear view now. There is absolutely no doubt that high total cholesterol, especially high ldl, is clear causative agent in CVD risk and death. This has been proven in studies grouping 100, 000's of patients, of many different types (many extremely robust).
Here, educate yourself, you need it- (this is from way back in 2017. I know, ancient history. So much for "old dogma" and "dated science" that has been "debunked." But I suppose it's a conspiracy)
https://cdn.ymaws.com/www.eas-society.org/resource/resmgr/publications/LDL_causes_ASCVD.pdfYouKnowTheTruthDeepDown wrote:
Well, the other problem with your argument is that you expect anyone to believe that runners can sustain 100+mpw for years and years at the elite and sub elite level all while consuming strictly plants which according to you our bodies cannot absorb the nutrients from. Explain how this would be biologically possible given how impossible it supposedly is to eat vegan and not end up with a list of ailments that can be cured by a single steak.
I have already presented the evidence in other post. As far as how can athletes sustain on plant based diet. Well, a lot of the top end elite athletes have superb genetics. Another option is that they are lying and they are eating a steak here and there on the side. Another option is steroids. Durian rider can gain muscle on a sugar diet due to steroids. Would not be surprised if a lot of vegan athletes are on steroids.
For more info on plant proteins not being adsorbable:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1abGmRE_lIhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5KbDq6eM4ACheck out his links to the studies if you doubt it, don't take my word for it.
steak does the body good wrote:
Wasn't the case for me. I fully drank the vegan kool aid. I read about a dozen books on why we should be vegan for our health while I was vegan, watched many vegan propaganda documentaries on why we need to go vegan for the environment, health and ethics, I watched many many hours of vegan propaganda on youtube. I was evangelizing to everyone who would listen to me why they should be vegan. To be honest I did not want to eat meat, but I just ate the steak to see what would happen. Just from that small steak I ate that day I actually had a sense of being satiated for the first time in years. Every since all my ailments went away. You can claim it was placebo or whatever, but just go fly a kite. And, of course the vegan cult will claim I did it wrong. But that is BS. I was whole foods plant based the whole way through my four years. Now I realize you can not absorb these vitamins and minerals from plants I use too falsely believe you could. You can not get the proper amount of protein or the kind of quality the human body needs. The human digestive system does not have a cecum, meaning we do not digest plants the same way our primate cousins do, which is why vegans have bloating and gas problems.
The fact you spend so much time on here arguing about this just goes to show how insecure you are about diet. I imagine the entire time you had people (friends and family) telling you veganism is bad, you are damaging your health etc... it explains why you'd spend so much time viewing as you put it 'vegan propaganda' which is a sign you were looking for justification and ammunition to use in arguments. Just because you drank the kool aid doesnt mean that you had insecurity about your diet and were not overthinking it to point of developing an anxiety around it.
That is a bunch of BS that you got from Cornell. Actually look into it. Instead of just drinking the vegan kool aid. Also, I keep hearing vegans talk about the environmental impact of meat. Yet they eat foods flown in half way around the world. Which do you think has a greater impact on the environment:a local steak or some fruits and veggies flown half way around the world?
S. Canaday wrote:
I have a BS from Cornell...where i did take a number of nutrition, bio, engineering, and chem courses.
That is beside the point though.
You think the massive amounts of cows we have on this planet are not bad for the environment? It isnt just the methane release...its all the grain and land and water we use to produce beef and dairy on a mass scale. Its the transportation and processing of all these products that causes a lot of waste of resouces and pollution. It is terribly inefficient and not sustainable.
The human body doesnt need beef and cow’s milk to survive. If anything it makes a lot of people sick.
I’m not an environmentalist though...I’m flying back from Hong King now. International plane flights are also horrible for the environment .
What is alarming is that you to not seem to accurately write about basic science when it comes to these environmental concerns and energy transfer. This is much more clear cut than The scientific studies on diet.
YMMV wrote:
Sage- what exactly is your STEM backround? Mine is Environmental Physiology at the graduate level.
Your understanding of "basic science" is the inverse of reality. Ketones are far less toxic in their metabolism than sugar (which all carbohydrates are broken down to before metabolism, a fact that seems to elude you). Ketones were the mainstay of metabolism for hunter-gatherers; sugar was an ephemeral and temporary expedient between productive kills.
I won't bother to address your now-routine smokescreen of straw men until you address my counterargument on why bovine metabolism is not a factor in any climate change whatsoever (which in any case is rendered moot by the fact that humans only contribute 1-2% of the non-toxic gas, CO2, to the atmosphere. The most significant "greenhouse gas" is H2O).
over thinking diet wrote:
steak does the body good wrote:
Wasn't the case for me. I fully drank the vegan kool aid. I read about a dozen books on why we should be vegan for our health while I was vegan, watched many vegan propaganda documentaries on why we need to go vegan for the environment, health and ethics, I watched many many hours of vegan propaganda on youtube. I was evangelizing to everyone who would listen to me why they should be vegan. To be honest I did not want to eat meat, but I just ate the steak to see what would happen. Just from that small steak I ate that day I actually had a sense of being satiated for the first time in years. Every since all my ailments went away. You can claim it was placebo or whatever, but just go fly a kite. And, of course the vegan cult will claim I did it wrong. But that is BS. I was whole foods plant based the whole way through my four years. Now I realize you can not absorb these vitamins and minerals from plants I use too falsely believe you could. You can not get the proper amount of protein or the kind of quality the human body needs. The human digestive system does not have a cecum, meaning we do not digest plants the same way our primate cousins do, which is why vegans have bloating and gas problems.
The fact you spend so much time on here arguing about this just goes to show how insecure you are about diet. I imagine the entire time you had people (friends and family) telling you veganism is bad, you are damaging your health etc... it explains why you'd spend so much time viewing as you put it 'vegan propaganda' which is a sign you were looking for justification and ammunition to use in arguments. Just because you drank the kool aid doesnt mean that you had insecurity about your diet and were not overthinking it to point of developing an anxiety around it.
Anxiety wasn't caused by social factors.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-breakthrough-depression-solution/201106/low-cholesterol-and-its-psychological-effectssteak does the body good wrote:
over thinking diet wrote:
The fact you spend so much time on here arguing about this just goes to show how insecure you are about diet. I imagine the entire time you had people (friends and family) telling you veganism is bad, you are damaging your health etc... it explains why you'd spend so much time viewing as you put it 'vegan propaganda' which is a sign you were looking for justification and ammunition to use in arguments. Just because you drank the kool aid doesnt mean that you had insecurity about your diet and were not overthinking it to point of developing an anxiety around it.
Anxiety wasn't caused by social factors.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-breakthrough-depression-solution/201106/low-cholesterol-and-its-psychological-effects
A rare problem and not one attributed to veganism. Most cholesterol is produced by the liver.
So I take it you visited a Dr and were diagnosed with low cholesterol? And that single steak cured you of low cholesterol?
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/high-blood-cholesterol/expert-answers/cholesterol-level/faq-20057952No arguing with vegans, they are a cult.
Here's a little history of there cult.
Humans do not have a cecum. If we are meant to eat plants as our main source of calories, as vegans claim, why did we loose our cecum?
Explain this vegans.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CecumMost mammalian herbivores have a relatively large cecum, hosting a large number of bacteria, which aid in the enzymatic breakdown of plant materials such as cellulose; in many species, it is considerably wider than the colon. In contrast, obligatory carnivores, whose diets contain little or no plant material, have a reduced cecum, which is often partially or wholly replaced by the appendix.[5]
Off season wrote:
Chris froome lowered (not removed) his carbs in the off season. He eats differently when he races, like taking gels.
Some details.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61l_4RkKZT4Tyrone ReXXXing wrote:
...
I have been following this thread (sorry, I prefer not to use my registered handle here) and you are now one of my favorite posters on LRC.
jhyfd wrote:
Tyrone ReXXXing wrote:
...
I have been following this thread (sorry, I prefer not to use my registered handle here) and you are now one of my favorite posters on LRC.
I second that.
Hsndbfjoslqbd wrote:
jhyfd wrote:
I have been following this thread (sorry, I prefer not to use my registered handle here) and you are now one of my favorite posters on LRC.
I second that.
Hi sage and sage vegan cult followers, why did humans, if we are meant to eat a plant base diet, lose our cecum?
Hi sage wrote:
Hsndbfjoslqbd wrote:
I second that.
Hi sage and sage vegan cult followers, why did humans, if we are meant to eat a plant base diet, lose our cecum?
We are not meant to anything. We have free will.
tyhrt wrote:
Hi sage wrote:
Hi sage and sage vegan cult followers, why did humans, if we are meant to eat a plant base diet, lose our cecum?
We are not meant to anything. We have free will.
We aren't debating philosophy, we are debating health and nutrition. In case you vegans don't know:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CecumMost mammalian herbivores have a relatively large cecum, hosting a large number of bacteria, which aid in the enzymatic breakdown of plant materials such as cellulose; in many species, it is considerably wider than the colon. In contrast, obligatory carnivores, whose diets contain little or no plant material, have a reduced cecum, which is often partially or wholly replaced by the appendix
Hi sage wrote:
tyhrt wrote:
We are not meant to anything. We have free will.
We aren't debating philosophy, we are debating health and nutrition. In case you vegans don't know:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CecumMost mammalian herbivores have a relatively large cecum, hosting a large number of bacteria, which aid in the enzymatic breakdown of plant materials such as cellulose; in many species, it is considerably wider than the colon. In contrast, obligatory carnivores, whose diets contain little or no plant material, have a reduced cecum, which is often partially or wholly replaced by the appendix
"We" what?
I am not Sage and I don't know him.
I am not vegan.
I also am not stupid like you to think that a vegan athlete cannot be healthy,
Check Sage Canaday and Scott Jurek and tell me your PRs.
Take care.
over thinking diet wrote:
I personal theory on why people who say veganism was bad for them is because of anxiety from overthinking health and diet. It is ingrained in peoples minds that you need meat, you need milk etc... often times this can manifest in second guessing. Everyone I've ever talked to that has gone vegan/plant based has said they have second guessed themselves multiple times.
The fact people say things like this "I ate one steak and bam, I was cured" just goes to show how much of a mental health issue this is rather than diet. You've convinced yourself that the meat 'cured' you so it did, its just like a placebo affect. Actual dietary deficiencies take a long time to recover from, you don't just eat a piece of something or take a single supplement. If you are low in b12 or something for example it is going to take a least a week to get your levels good. It explains everything about why people who say this always just have random things about their 'poor' health, much of those kinds of things are literally symptoms of anxiety, its hypochondria.
So you give a man dying of thirst in the desert water and electrolytes and he recovers within 24 hours, then you tell him it was all in his head, just hypochondria. That is some real Vegan Logic taking place there.
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