OP, let me guess. You're terrible at math?
OP, let me guess. You're terrible at math?
STEM: School Teach Everybody Mediocrity.
Asian influences.
no YOURE hilarious wrote:
OP, let me guess. You're terrible at math?
not the OP but i hold similar views and it has nothing to do with math ability
Primo Numero Uno wrote:
And the right Stem person can rise to upper management just like anyone else.
Software engineering in particular is excellent preparation for leadership positions. The principles of writing good software are the same as running an effective business (e.g. you organize an entity into small entities with well-defined, single responsibilities). Software engineers are better communicators and writers than are non-engineers such as Marketing Managers, believe it or not. Because software engineers spend their day writing and reviewing unambiguous, concise design specifications and code. STEM majors outperform English majors, Communication majors, etc. on the Writing section of the GRE.
why? why? wrote:
So your sister makes millions every single year but still works 80+ hours a week?
any plans on retiring in the next couple of years?
so easy to get addicted to the work and waste the only currency that matters. There' s no way someone working 80 plus hours a week with ZERO days off is really enjoying their life.
She hasn't been making 7 figures long - she's in her late 30s and lives in a VHCOL area. I don't think she could retire now unless she was willing to live very modestly. She might be able to in 10 years, though, and still maintain a pretty high standard of living. I haven't really done the math since I don't make anywhere near that much.
When I say 365 days a year, I don't mean she's in the office working a 12 hour day. I mean that on Christmas day, she was on her laptop working for at least couple hours during the day. She takes days partially off for sure, but there's never been a time that I've witnessed when she really 100% took a day off.
I don't want to work like that, but she is driven in a way I'm not and most people aren't. Did you read the article about Elon saying you need to work 80 hours a week to change the world? I don't necessarily think that's wrong. Wealth and impact come to people who work very hard for them. I think that kind of drive is innate; you either have it or you don't. And you obviously need ability, too.
Exception to the RULE wrote:
Companies may hire these SF guys straight out of college, but they won't last long at 200k if they aren't the best of the best and seriously produce for the company.
Of course you have to produce for the company. But most hires do. If that's not the case, something is wrong with the interview process.
"best of the best" is probably unnecessary. I don't consider myself anything special, just reasonably competent. There are a lot of people out there who call themselves software engineers, but are either ineffective or unintentionally destructive. Sadly, "top 1%" may only mean people like me.
jamin wrote:
the real truth, ruth wrote:
National universities, heavy in tech, or bust. CMU. Stanford. MIT.
A good school name will help your resume get to the top of the pile for positions that are expecting to hire a new grad, but once the interview process gets going it's a level playing field where all that matter are your technical skills and personality. If you live in a tech capital like San Francisco or Seattle, you can make connections and get referred for interviews, doesn't matter your educational background.
+1
You can advance to upper management in a big company only of you play the lifelong suckup game. Big tech IS miserable. Annual performance reviews and get a manager who doesn't like you you'll get "meets expectations". You could be on a group with all brilliant people but at big Tech, managers are required to give some people bad reviews. Quotas. it sucks you dry.
Smaller companies have their own issues. Constant struggle long hours at startups. The stock options lottery...
Or listen to the MD in this thread and get a good life long career. Dont want to be an MD? Better to be an MRI tech than any tech outside of medicine.
All or nothing wrote:
Pretty sure PhDs in stem fields make pretty good money, but why not a stem undergrad, then MBA or law degree? That’s a powerful combination.
Actually... PhDs in STEM fields don't necessarily make any more than undergrads. A PhD is an extreme specialization. If you specialize in something theoretical and you can't get a job in academia, you need to figure out how to make your skills relevant in industry. Perhaps the portion that is relevant (example: statistics) isn't significantly better than an undergrad's skills. That being said, STEM PhDs from top universities are usually really smart and they can pick up new skills fast.
MBA and law degree both cost a lot of money and there's additional opportunity cost in not making any money in those years. If your plan is to do something that definitely requires one of those degrees plus some technical expertise (e.g. patent attorney), this suggestion is great. If you just want to become an engineering manager/director/startup-founder or something like that, it's not a good use of time or money.
SF engineer wrote:
Of course you have to produce for the company.
Yes, the big companies will give you engineering projects and if you don't deliver you get managed out
almost nobody working 80 hours a week is changing the world. fact. fact i doubt that's not even the motivation for 0.1% of them.
I agree that drive is innate...but it's more of a disability than an ability, like values dyslexia, not something to be celebrated.
if you are making multiple millions per year and it would take 10 years to be able to retire your values are probably screwed up. Give me $1 million and I would never spend another day doing meaningless crap i didn't want to with my life.
And don't tell me she is working at home on her laptop at Christmas is because 'she loves what she does...it's hardly a job."
It's not a job.....it's mental disorder.
medicine is the best medicine wrote:
You could be on a group with all brilliant people but at big Tech, managers are required to give some people bad reviews.
Some companies are like that, but it's misguided. It's so hard to hire and train new engineers, this can't be good for the company. Assuming you're actually a good engineer and you find yourself getting bad reviews, you can always just find a better job.
Or listen to the MD in this thread and get a good life long career. Dont want to be an MD? Better to be an MRI tech than any tech outside of medicine.
I'd rather be a software engineer and I have no interest in "advancing" to management. Pretty sure I'm getting paid more than an MRI tech too. But I can understand that most people don't enjoy engineering. Being a software engineer means actively thinking most of the time.
A common misconception on this thread is that engineer -> manager is the desired career progression. Actually, compensation for engineers and managers can overlap a huge amount, and the better tech companies let you get promoted up the technical track too. And companies are begging their engineers with above-average people skills to consider the manager track, yet often get turned down.
manager with data wrote:
People who work more are more likely to advance and earn more and vice versa. I definitely have a couple low performers working 40 or less.
You sound like a nightmare to work for. Do you track their hours? Do they punch a clock? What company? Usually the low performers are logging face-time. They stay longer because they don't get the work done. High performers get more done in less time. It's a fact. People should be working like 36 hours per week.
nope wrote:
no YOURE hilarious wrote:
OP, let me guess. You're terrible at math?
not the OP but i hold similar views and it has nothing to do with math ability
Let me guess, you're also terrible at math
Hardloper wrote:
nope wrote:
not the OP but i hold similar views and it has nothing to do with math ability
Let me guess, you're also terrible at math
nope. outstanding natural math ability, just absolutely bored by it.
nope wrote:
Hardloper wrote:
Let me guess, you're also terrible at math
nope. outstanding natural math ability, just absolutely bored by it.
That sucks, sorry to hear that
Her job sounds like it might be pretty cool actually
Hardloper wrote:
nope wrote:
nope. outstanding natural math ability, just absolutely bored by it.
That sucks, sorry to hear that
sorry? why?
Yaz yaz wrote:
jamin wrote:[/b
22-yr-olds at modern software companies (not "Tech Rust Belt" companies like Hewlett Packard) start at over $200k TC and have all kinds of sweet benefits like free gym memberships, private shuttles to work, 3 months paid maternity leave, etc. And they don't even need a college degree. GPA? What's that? What kind of prick puts their GPA on their resume?
Really, fresh out of college with most likely a computer science bachelors degree and zero real world experience, starting at over $200k?
yes. Comp Sci graduates of famous schools, going to work in CA, NY, or DC will get that.
Everyone else gets about 50-60k to start.
No-one gets in without a college degree anymore, except for guys who get their startups bought out by one of the bigs. The only guys who can afford to run a startup in this economy, are guys like Bill Gates was, from wealthy families with excellent contacts in the industry. Joe Coder from the midwest isn't going anywhere without a degree.
See the BLS numbers,
https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/home.htmand
https://stats.bls.gov/oes/current/oes150000.htmThe median annual wage for computer and information technology occupations was $84,580 in May 2017.
Entry-level education for all of these is bachelor's or higher.
Encouraging students to go into STEM is indeed nonsense. There aren't enough jobs in STEM to occupy even a small fraction of graduates.
In computer and information science and in engineering, U.S. colleges graduate 50 percent more students than are hired into those fields each year.
http://www.epi.org/publication/bp359-guestworkers-high-skill-labor-market-analysis/