Bekele vs Jim Ryun in a mile

Great, I see it clearly now. Thanks for clarifying.

I agree with your second paragraph. Lots of people just see faster times and think that means better athletes. Yet again there are others, often those who grew up in the 50's and 60's who get carried away and take huge chunks off the performances from athletes during their eras. The other confusing issue is the effect and use of drugs, especially EPO. I personally don't think EL G or any of those that have run 3:26 did so clean. So when some claim Ryun was capable of 3:24 clean, it does tend to confuse matters further. I think Ryun could have run 3:30 in a well paced race on a synthetic (non Monaco!) track based on his 67 form. For me that is good enough to assume he would be competing for medals in any era against clean athletes.

I never said that Ryun's pacing in his 3:33.1 was ideal! I clearly wrote, "The first lap was not optimum", and said that, "Had the first lap been 3 secs faster and the 2nd lap 2 sec slower..."

Ryun's last 300m was not under 38 secs, it was 39.3. His last 400m was 53.6.

Sorry, I was mainly picking up on your initial point that Keino was a great pacer for Ryun in that race. But it seems you kind of qualified that out of existence by saying the first two laps were really run the wrong way - "not optimally" - for a record time. That was really my point, too. Keino was leading to 1200 but it didn't seem much like pacing. He was - too late, by the 3rd lap - trying to run the legs off Ryun. I remember seeing the race and being astonished that a record was the result. It wasn't likely even at 1200m but Ryun's finish was something else - even if his actual time over the last 300 was a tad more than I recalled. Keino was made to look like he was walking. His 3.37 was much more on the cards at that pace. Ryun's finish was comparable to Snell's kick at Tokyo in a significantly slower race, where he also came home in the region of 39secs for the last 300m. But, yes, Ryun could have run 3.32 that day off more even pacing.

I do not believe Bekele would have done any better than did Ryun in 1964 Olympics 1500m if Bekele were the exact age of Ryun in 1964. Bekele in 1968 Olympics would have won. 3:34.xx was a good time for 7000ft. elevation, but Bekele would have beaten Keino. In 1972, Bekele would have raced a similar strategy as Keino but Bekele would have prevailed. Doing an imaginary match race may not be the best way of looking at this, put Bekele at Ryun's age in 1964, 1968 & 1972 Olympics, 1500m.

Armstronglivs wrote:

His 3.37 was much more on the cards at that pace. Ryun's finish was comparable to Snell's kick at Tokyo in a significantly slower race, where he also came home in the region of 39secs for the last 300m. But, yes, Ryun could have run 3.32 that day off more even pacing.

And to Coe's 39.2, 53.2 finish in a faster 3:32.5 Olympic final in 84.

Deanouk wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

His 3.37 was much more on the cards at that pace. Ryun's finish was comparable to Snell's kick at Tokyo in a significantly slower race, where he also came home in the region of 39secs for the last 300m. But, yes, Ryun could have run 3.32 that day off more even pacing.

And to Coe's 39.2, 53.2 finish in a faster 3:32.5 Olympic final in 84.

We are talking about three of the greatest 1500 races of all time. Utterly convincing victories, produced in each instance by devastating finishing kicks.

Bekele would win.

Dirtball wrote:

Bekele would win.

So Bekele with a pb of 3:32.35, competing in the EPO era when most accept that it made the top guys at least a couple of seconds faster, could beat a guy who ran a 3:51 mile as a teen half-a-century ago on a cinder track in sweltering heat?

It's just racism isn't it? If I started a thread 'Ovett vs Bekele in a 5000m' it would be less stupid, and less racist. I notice also that the discussion is being turned to 'could Bekele beat Kenio', despite Ryun whipping Kenio when both at their peak every time aside from the Altitude Games.