Sub 17 min 5k

I'd plug in a few tempo runs and go at 6:00 or 6:30 mile pace. Do intervals at your 5k goal race pace too, like sub-5:30 mile repeats.

A 17-minute 5k is about a 5:30 mile pace, so some of your training runs should be at under 6 minute mile pace. Easy runs can be at 7:30 mile pace.

Agree with FlyingFast.

You should make your tempo miles 30-40 mins, which will help your speed endurance, as at the moment your total for intervals is less than your target race.

Also, drop one of your easy days to recover and push your easy runs to an hour each. From there, also increase your long run to 90 mins.

You have to qualify your km, that scheme will quickly lead you to adaptation.

Insert different means and organize them in a schedule.

For example in three blocks:

Block A:

Aerobic runs up to the anaerobic threshold (21k pace) with short, medium and long fartlek, long runs mixed to medium and fast pace. VO2max on uphill interval training of 200-500 mt.

Strengthening and technique of running with short uphill, bouncing and boundingrunnuing, skips, long build up, squats jumps, scissor squat jumps, depth jumps. (for example the Canova's circuits).

BlockB:

The means of block A pass underneath, while aerobic speeds are qualified to Max Lass (Max Lactic-Aerobic Steady State). Then Max Lass (pace 5k-10k with fractional runs and VO2max-Max Lass interval training (80-400 mtt) from uphill pass to the plane with greater speed development.

Block C:

The means of block A and B pass underneath, while we develop the specific rhythm 5k, development of lactic capacity and lactic resistance, and VO2max passes from interval training to long split up as 800-1000-1200-1500-2000 meters.

Needhelp wrote:

Hey guys, I need advice. This is my second year running, and I really want a sub 17 5k. I'm in about 18 min shape right now. I'm 5'4 and 115 pounds, and run about 45 miles a week. Genetics I don't believe is my problem, dad ran a marathon, mom was a competitive runner and swimmer. Here is what a typical week looks like:

Monday: 45-50 at 7:30 pace

Tuesday: 4x1k at 3:36 with 200 jog

Wednesday: 45 min at 7:30 pace

Thursday: 50 min at 7:25 pace

Friday: 50 min at 7:27 pace

Saturday: 45 min at 7:25 pace

Sunday: 70 min at 7:42 pace

Any advice is very much appreciated, I hope to achieve my goal soon. Thank you

Don't know you, but here are a few suggestions:

- don't look at your pace on your regular runs until after. It could be that you need to be going a little slower some days

- add a second workout if able, on thursday or Friday. I would start with some short reps ~200 or hills.

- if you like repeat 1ks, slow them down a little and try to do more. Work up to 6-7x 1k in the 3:45 range

- you could also do some tempo running as one of your workouts

- gradually add minutes to your long run and regular daily runs. Gradually. I would add the second faster workout first

- train at current fitness, not as a 17 min 5k runner

Thanks for the advice! Currently I do my tempos at 6:25 pace, and they are 3 miles only. Tomorrow would be my hard workout day, should I try to maintain the pace for a long period of time or get used to running faster?

Thanks for the advice! Do you think I can remain running at 40-45 miles a week or increase the amount? This is really the most I’ve run currently. Earlier in the season, I ran a 18:07 off 35 a week(I had to listen to my HS coach). Don’t know if his training was any good, it was 25-30 minute runs, and 2 dash of intensity that usually included VO2 max and 200s. Anyways, now that it’s off season I want to really improve for next years cross country season. I wonder what increasing mileage and doing more tempo work at 6:00 to 6:30 pace would do?

Slow your easy runs down and run more. Try 7:45-8:00. No need to drop 7:20s on the easy days- this is your second year running, so you are coming at this without a huge aerobic base, so the calculated easy paces are pro only too fast.

A few things. I'm guessing by height/weight that you are still in high school. If you've already run ~18 for 5k, then you will eventually get under 17. Just be patient and keep training and building your mileage base. You will get there, but improvement in running doesn't happen overnight and doesn't happen without doing the work. The fastest way for young/new runners to improve is to stay injury-free.

Regarding your training, I think you're doing too much of same thing. I'd like to see your long run move up to 90 minutes, then when you get there, slowly increase one of your mid-week runs to 60 minutes. As you do this, I think it's OK to just redistribute your current workload. 40 min run is good for an easy day. That's ~5 miles at your pace. So you might try something like take 5 mins from your Monday run and add to your Sunday run, until Monday is at 40. Same with Wed/Thurs, moving Wed to 40 and Thurs to 60. Don't be in a hurry to add weekly mileage! Plenty of time for that as you get more experience.

4x1k at 3:36 is not close to what you'd need to run for

Depending on how long these cross races are, if they are 10-12 km, even a little over 45 miles may suffice. It is more important to make a few well-aimed long workouts that increase slightly each session as somebody do stretching or warming up, this is useless.

Only for examples, If you followed HS he does interval training VO2max a 20 x 400 which is already an optimal volume, at most you get to 25 x 400 meters.

The rhythms depend on your characteristics of fibers, nervous and endocrine systems, better if you know or you can estimate your PB on 3k, 10k and 21k also. For two points passes a line for which only two PBs are enough.

Needhelp wrote:

Hey guys, I need advice. This is my second year running, and I really want a sub 17 5k. I'm in about 18 min shape right now. I'm 5'4 and 115 pounds, and run about 45 miles a week. Genetics I don't believe is my problem, dad ran a marathon, mom was a competitive runner and swimmer. Here is what a typical week looks like:

Monday: 45-50 at 7:30 pace

Tuesday: 4x1k at 3:36 with 200 jog

Wednesday: 45 min at 7:30 pace

Thursday: 50 min at 7:25 pace

Friday: 50 min at 7:27 pace

Saturday: 45 min at 7:25 pace

Sunday: 70 min at 7:42 pace

Any advice is very much appreciated, I hope to achieve my goal soon. Thank you

1) You should NEVER RUN REPS AT GOAL PACE. Work at the level you are - i.e get into a 5k right now and see where you are (if you dont know). Increase the volume: 4x1k is nowhere enough. Aim to get to 6-7k of reps at least at current 5k pace (effort). Looking at where you are from that session i dont think you can break 18' right now. Improvements are most often incremental, big leaps just dont happen.

2) You dont have VARIETY in your training. Add as been suggested a TEMPO (you can split 30/40' into intervals if it is too taxing). Add some HILLS

3) LONG RUN is too short

4) Run AT FEEL rather than at pace. The day you are tired slow down, or you will end joing the army of underachievers that are perennially overtraining trying to hit paces....

KAV wrote:

1) You should NEVER RUN REPS AT GOAL PACE.

Only a Sith deals in absolutes. There is a time and a place for reps at goal pace. It's not every interval workout. It's not for a goal that's 10% faster than what you can run today, but "5x1k at goal pace with 90s rest" is an acceptable workout when the goal is reasonable. It's a point where current fitness and goal fitness start to converge.

You need more mileage first and foremost. Then you need a 2nd workout during the week. I reccommend increasing the length of the thursday run and doing 5 miles at half marathon pace to it with the last mile faster, if you feel good. I'd increase the length of the tuesday workout to 6x1k. Lastlyu, I'd extend the sunday long run to at least 90 mins.

What is your age? If you're still in school, I'd run these ideas as well as your goals past your coach before implementing them. This is all pretty general stuff, you shouldn't do the exact same training week year round. If you don't have a coach, this stuff is a good start, but you should pick up daniels or another training book and build a plan that works specifically for you.

Do what this guy said.

also, are you not doing track? (making a gross generalization that you are a highschooler in the US)

english professer wrote:

KAV wrote:

1) You should NEVER RUN REPS AT GOAL PACE.

Only a Sith deals in absolutes. There is a time and a place for reps at goal pace. It's not every interval workout. It's not for a goal that's 10% faster than what you can run today, but "5x1k at goal pace with 90s rest" is an acceptable workout when the goal is reasonable. It's a point where current fitness and goal fitness start to converge.

Yawn.... there is if he wants to race a 3k... but he'll improve a lot more training close to where he is...

His goal is anything but reasonable... he wants to run 3'25 a km and cant even go beyond 4k of reps running 10" slower.... Plus he's recovering a whopping 2' on km reps...

talk big behind a keyboard professor... value for money for your students....

KAV wrote:

english professer wrote:

Only a Sith deals in absolutes. There is a time and a place for reps at goal pace. It's not every interval workout. It's not for a goal that's 10% faster than what you can run today, but "5x1k at goal pace with 90s rest" is an acceptable workout when the goal is reasonable. It's a point where current fitness and goal fitness start to converge.

Yawn.... there is if he wants to race a 3k... but he'll improve a lot more training close to where he is...

His goal is anything but reasonable... he wants to run 3'25 a km and cant even go beyond 4k of reps running 10" slower.... Plus he's recovering a whopping 2' on km reps...

talk big behind a keyboard professor... value for money for your students....

My point is not that he should be running at those paces now. My point is that you said he should NEVER run any reps at any goal pace. That is not a true statement. In his current position, he shouldn't be running reps at 16:59 5k pace. Obviously. But that was not your statement.

Don’t need a long run.

Don’t need a tempo run.

Always run at goal pace or faster during intervals.

Reduce rest breaks over time.

Fartlek is superior to tempo.

Thanks for the reply! Actually before in the summer I was running around 20 miles a week and that produced a 19:30 5k. Within 3 weeks I got my 5k down to 18:25 AT A VERY FAST COURSE(festival of champions meet), so I believe that big improvements can be made. Also, the 1k workout was just what I did during that week. Earlier in the season, I did 6x800 at 2:49 pace with 2:00 minute jog. This is probably a better example of where I am currently(coming from a slight break, 3 days). Anyways, then I got my 5k time down to 18:07. Still, as you said, I am well aware that I cannot jump straight in doing 16:59 pace. Just thought I’d clarify that 1k’s are not what I do every single week.

Listen. Different times of the year call for different types of training. When you’re in competition phase and doing workouts and races you need to have recovery days. But prior to that phase you need a high aerobic phase that many runners are hesitant to do but actually is super effective if you’re diligent about taking care of your body with stretching, strengthening and rest.

The aerobic phase can be 4-8 weeks, and during this phase at least every other day you should work the aerobic system with runs at around 6:45-7:00 for a runner like yourself. Without workouts theirs not need to recover. Every other day gives you a lil break but also you can get in 3-4 of these aerobic runs, and even let your long run go at this faster pace. The first week will be rough so keep the distance of these runs short say 20-35 min. Don’t do the long run this pace the first week wait til second week. After a few weeks you’ll find your groove and almost feel like running this pace for every run but refrain from doing so. You’ll find how strong you’re becoming . After this phase is over you can keep 1-2 of your weekly runs like this but do them on days before workout days. All of your other paces will become faster(5k/10k(critical velocity) or even threshold will improved greatly. Most athletes I’ve had do this will immediately get a 20-40 second drop in their 5k. Just stay healthy and take care of yourself, good luck