Ritz on why Americans aren't going sub 2:10 and on Des Linden's comments about him joining Hansons team

Piling On wrote:

Wejo and Rojo

Please ask Desiree Linden if she has ever had a TUE or if she has ever taken thyroid medication?

PLEASE ASK

Also ask if she thinks that the Rosa’s are dirty and if she feels the connection between Josh Cox (Fila Discovery) views poorly on her reputation?

How is that different than Ritz?

PLEASE ASK

If I remember, I'll ask. The Josh Cox thing is sure a stretch. One of my best friends was in that group. This was early 2000s. The Rosas had no runners busted for anything at the time. ila backed the program and solicited people to join it. It wasn't considered some shady operation.

We just knew Rosa had come from cycling so the joke was he would dope them and my friend Paul Stoneham would have been the first to rat them out.

And next time I see Ritz I'll ask him about this comment. "I can’t get into everything with you but to tell you the truth I’m ok with myself. "

Why can't he get into everything? It's his choice not to get into everything but I wish I had been a little more quick on my feet.

Also another factor with elite American men only running in the 2:11-2:16 range is the courses they run. Almost no elite Americans run Fukuoka/other Japanese marathons or European pancake flat courses.

I think what Burnsy points out is worth noting: there never were a couple 2:07 guys around and several more within a few minutes at a given time in the US. Compared to today's fairly routine international times, we never did have many - just occasional outliers (thankfully, there is sometimes one US guy to root for).

What I really wanted to write was that I was impressed that many of you - including Ritz himself - see it like I do: the whole HS/NCAA thing (and significant peer/parental/societal pressures) discourage any real long-distance training and racing until approaching the end of one's prime. The court of public opinion expressly forbids non-school-affiliated running if you have eligibility. If you trained through most school-related races with an eye toward the marathon then immediately moved to roads afterward then maybe it would work, but how many times did the NYC commentators comment on so-and-so's young age yesterday? Your teens are 'supposed' to be spent earning the scholarship. That ain't happening if you're on the roads. Then you're stuck at the shorter events for another several years. Contrast that with a training group in Iten in which college is a concern of no one but winning Berlin certainly is a priority. Many will try and some will truly succeed. Here, no 20-year-olds are even trying. That pretty much guarantees that none will make it by 25.

Just my opinion. Forgetting about your High School's team and coach is a start, but that ain't happening anytime soon in this country.

5 Americans

1. Rupp

2. Ritz

3. Meb

4. Abdi

5. Salazar

wejo wrote:

And next time I see Ritz I'll ask him about this comment. "I can’t get into everything with you but to tell you the truth I’m ok with myself. "

Why can't he get into everything? It's his choice not to get into everything but I wish I had been a little more quick on my feet.

Because the interview person was one of the Brojos, host of one of the most slanderous websites on the internet.

wejo wrote:

Piling On wrote:

Wejo and Rojo

Please ask Desiree Linden if she has ever had a TUE or if she has ever taken thyroid medication?

PLEASE ASK

Also ask if she thinks that the Rosa’s are dirty and if she feels the connection between Josh Cox (Fila Discovery) views poorly on her reputation?

How is that different than Ritz?

PLEASE ASK

If I remember, I'll ask. The Josh Cox thing is sure a stretch. One of my best friends was in that group. This was early 2000s. The Rosas had no runners busted for anything at the time. ila backed the program and solicited people to join it. It wasn't considered some shady operation.

We just knew Rosa had come from cycling so the joke was he would dope them and my friend Paul Stoneham would have been the first to rat them out.

Thank you Wejo. I appreciate your willingness to ask Desiree both the TUE and Thyroid medication questions.

PLEASE ASK.

Asking helps to prove that you are honestly interested in clean sport and that it is not just a witch hunt going after NOP.

I know that many accuse you of giving everyone else a free pass but going after anyone associated with NOP. This will hopefully be enough of a reminder to prove differently.

PLEASE ASK

Ritz looked like a little boy in high school and yet still was one of the fastest of all time high school talents. Look at his body from a physics standpoint; it’s close to ideal. I don’t trust NOP but I trust Ritz’ talent is in line with his performances.

He’s no donkey turned into a racehorse. Dude is thoroughbred through and through all the way from his physiological and phenotype characteristics to him being graceful under attack.

He should be held as high as any American runner before him. He has certainly transcended himself and entered into the hall of the very few great ones that are artists beyond compare.

wejo wrote:

If I remember, I'll ask. The Josh Cox thing is sure a stretch. One of my best friends was in that group. This was early 2000s. The Rosas had no runners busted for anything at the time. ila backed the program and solicited people to join it. It wasn't considered some shady operation.

We just knew Rosa had come from cycling so the joke was he would dope them and my friend Paul Stoneham would have been the first to rat them out.

Maybe they were the control group. Rosa was quite a scientist after all.

Josh Cox bragged for a decade of his association with Fila Discovery which was being run by a known drug cheat (Dr. Rosa). Why would anyone in that group be given a pass? Do we give anyone in NOP the same pass?

I'll see Desi long before Wejo will, and I'm not asking her anything (I live where she trains). Why do you think HE'LL see her? Where? When? Next year at Boston?

Instagram her and state if you're honorable you respond...laugh, but that approach sometimes works;) I know that for a fact as I once called out an American Marathoner who liked to point the finger at everyone else.

Luv2Run wrote:

Oh Please wrote:

If Des has specific info she should spill it, else shut up. Remember, in America we are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty.

.

Innocent until proven guilty applies to a court of law. If I ever sat on a jury, then I would have that mindset.

However, I can look at a situation and see "guilt". For one thing my opinion really does not matter.

For instance I believe to this day that OJ killed two people although a jury disagreed. I think there is sufficient "stink" on NOP to raise questions.

Yes, OJ is guilty. He was found innocent simply because the prosecutors were found to do a poor job and missed critical points. And, then having him try on leather gloves, was major blunder. Everyone knows that leather gloves shrink after heated and/or wet. Des, is in deep of the American running culture. She knows things, and can't really talk about them in public, but knows that too many people giving statements about what NOP does behind close doors, can't all be wrong.

Toshihiko Seko ran his 5000m PR and his marathon PR in the same year. And, his 10000m PR the year before his marathon PR. Bill Rodgers ran his 5000m PR the year before his marathon PR. Running a marathon while in ones track prime is probably why the Japanese have 10x sub 2:10 marathoners than the US does. Also, running in miles as opposed to kilometers hurts Americans. You see it, Americans coming through 30 kilometers in slower than 90 minutes.

wejo wrote:

And next time I see Ritz I'll ask him about this comment. "I can’t get into everything with you but to tell you the truth I’m ok with myself. "

Why can't he get into everything? It's his choice not to get into everything but I wish I had been a little more quick on my feet.

Yeah, maybe cut back on the pregame mimosas next time?

Obese Americans having too many fattening Ritz crackers, destroying their Korir. Yankee fatties trying to control themselves, Albeit still Salivating for that fried chicken. Lagat of that junk food diet and Kipchirchir up. Don't let that stuff Ruppture your aorta. Ward off Abdi-cate from that trans fat before it's too late and makes you too slow to run fast marathons.

Can there be a post with more play on wards?

Fat American wrote:

Obese Americans having too many fattening Ritz crackers, destroying their Korir. Yankee fatties trying to control themselves, Albeit still Salivating for that fried chicken. Lagat of that junk food diet and Kipchirchir up. Don't let that stuff Ruppture your aorta. Ward off Abdi-cate from that trans fat before it's too late and makes you too slow to run fast marathons.

*stipe wrote:

The early miles of today's race sort of highlighted the male body type that is more conducive to 2:05 type of performances. The Americans (Fauble, Smith, Ward, Derrick) looked like giants.

Desisa: 121lbs

Kam: 128lbs

Tola: 130lbs at 5'11

Kipchoge 123lbs at 5'6

Tergat 137lbs at 6'0

Osaka 117lbs at 5'7

Ward 135lbs at 5'9

Derrick 161lbs at 6'2

Rupp 134lbs at 5'11

Ritz 121lbs at 5'8

Rupp and Ritz more closely resemble the build of the fastest marathoners.

I remember standing next to Khannouchi near the start of a race. At 5'9 and 135, I was a giant compared to him.

KK and Meb are quite small when you meet them in person, but Tergat for example is around 6 feet.

Perhaps the NCAA should drop T&F and XC and just have marathon teams.

RunRaider wrote:

What has Des said that offended you so much? From what I've seen, she's just said that she "didn't agree" with the decision to bring Ritz onto the Hanson's team. That's not "nasty" or really even personal to Ritz at all. He'll be connected to NOP/Salazar and their questionable tactics forever, regardless of whether he disagreed with those decisions or left NOP as a result of them.

If I were in her position, I wouldn't want to be associated with anyone connected to doping under any circumstances. If this were any other sport, we'd think that that's perfectly reasonable. It's nothing personal to Ritz; it's just bad business for his teammates to have to take on that baggage. Des had been with Hanson's for so long that I can understand her frustration at not being consulted.

Des publicly announced her suspicions about one America's most esteemed runners. She did'nt just throw Ritz under the bus, the Hansons as well. Athletes usually don't call out other athlets by name, at least not in public.