Ritz on why Americans aren't going sub 2:10 and on Des Linden's comments about him joining Hansons team

What has Des said that offended you so much? From what I've seen, she's just said that she "didn't agree" with the decision to bring Ritz onto the Hanson's team. That's not "nasty" or really even personal to Ritz at all. He'll be connected to NOP/Salazar and their questionable tactics forever, regardless of whether he disagreed with those decisions or left NOP as a result of them.

If I were in her position, I wouldn't want to be associated with anyone connected to doping under any circumstances. If this were any other sport, we'd think that that's perfectly reasonable. It's nothing personal to Ritz; it's just bad business for his teammates to have to take on that baggage. Des had been with Hanson's for so long that I can understand her frustration at not being consulted.

RunRaider wrote:

What has Des said that offended you so much? From what I've seen, she's just said that she "didn't agree" with the decision to bring Ritz onto the Hanson's team. That's not "nasty" or really even personal to Ritz at all. He'll be connected to NOP/Salazar and their questionable tactics forever, regardless of whether he disagreed with those decisions or left NOP as a result of them.

If I were in her position, I wouldn't want to be associated with anyone connected to doping under any circumstances. If this were any other sport, we'd think that that's perfectly reasonable. It's nothing personal to Ritz; it's just bad business for his teammates to have to take on that baggage. Des had been with Hanson's for so long that I can understand her frustration at not being consulted.

Yes, but she was already leaving the Hanson Club, that's why she made the comments.

did anyone else notice/think it interesting that Ritz is adamant he's not worried about what Des thinks and that he's OK with everything he's done, but that he never says "I've always been clean" or "I never broke the rules" ??

sanchobaile wrote:

did anyone else notice/think it interesting that Ritz is adamant he's not worried about what Des thinks and that he's OK with everything he's done, but that he never says "I've always been clean" or "I never broke the rules" ??

Lol he's said many times before he's clean. Keep fishing.

YMMV wrote:

Desi on the other hand was fairly mediocre even through college by comparison, but is like the Little Engine That Could, and understandably has more of a chip on her shoulder.

She did run a 2:22:38 to place 2nd in Boston in the heavily wind added year. But obviously so was everyone else. I don't think placing 2nd that year was mediocre.

I agree with the rest of your post though.

sanchobaile wrote:

did anyone else notice/think it interesting that Ritz is adamant he's not worried about what Des thinks and that he's OK with everything he's done, but that he never says "I've always been clean" or "I never broke the rules" ??

How many times did Lance Armstrong profess to have always been clean and to have never broken the rules? Is that all it takes to convince you? To me, Ritz seems like a guy who he knows that he didn’t cheat, so he doesn’t need to desperately insist that he’s clean. Maybe he isn’t; I don’t really care. But the implication you’re trying to make is nonsense either way.

Everyone is happier. This was a great move for Des and a better move for Hansons. Des no longer has to put up with advertising a brand that she no longer believes in. The Hansons no longer have to put up with an athlete that doesn’t want to be a part of a team. Win win.

#RunHappy

The thing is there is more money and many more sponsorship opportunities for any American who can be competitive on the World stage in the marathon as opposed to the track. You'd think that would be enough to motivate more to really go for it earlier in their careers.

In general at the NCAA level if you are really good 10k, 5k guy you try to make the Olympic track squad. Coaches/college/ potential sponsors/family, etc all push you in that direction

Maybe if you are a really good XC/10k/5k guy you should try to go to the marathon right after school or start your prep for it while in school.

For example if you were a junior now

Run the 10k in the spring of 2019, continue with the marathon training

Run XC in the fall of 2019. Continue with the marathon training

Early Spring Marathon 2020

Late spring 10k To close out collegiate obligation?

Nakskddkdj wrote:

sanchobaile wrote:

did anyone else notice/think it interesting that Ritz is adamant he's not worried about what Des thinks and that he's OK with everything he's done, but that he never says "I've always been clean" or "I never broke the rules" ??

Lol he's said many times before he's clean. Keep fishing.

OK I'm pretty sure it is public knowledge he did the illegal carnitine infusions, so technically he's really not clean no matter what else he did/didnt do. I think the running community in general has decided to give him a pass due to him being likeable and eventually making an effort to distance himself from NOP.

I thought his answer to the Des question was awful. He repeated himself 10 times and gave one of the most NOP-certified answers possible. Exactly the kind of answer Rupp or Hasay would give to that question. "I won't tell you what I did, but trust me, it wasnt that bad. I fully support Des [insert Shalane or any other NOP hater] and wish them the best."

It almost comes off as NOP taking the higher road, but if you really think about it it's just a chickens*** answer.

Why are you harping on about Kara Goucher? Regardless, your original post was objectively was a mess. Re-read it if you have any doubts. I'll break it down:

This assumes most of the talent in the Boston marathon is American which it usually isn't.

Irrelevant but true. I'll give you that.

Huh?

I didn't follow. Are you trying to say that if Jordan Hasay had been older or Molly Huddle had moved to the marathon earlier, then Linden wouldn't have finished second in Boston in 2011? That may even be true but it's completely hypothetical.

[quote]Oh Please wrote:

I

As for why American's aren't going sub 210, I've said it many times before: NCAA system and Olympic focus, which means our top guys wait until the marathon is an afterthought.

/quote]

American’s what aren’t going sub 2:10?

Exo wrote:

sanchobaile wrote:

did anyone else notice/think it interesting that Ritz is adamant he's not worried about what Des thinks and that he's OK with everything he's done, but that he never says "I've always been clean" or "I never broke the rules" ??

How many times did Lance Armstrong profess to have always been clean and to have never broken the rules? Is that all it takes to convince you? To me, Ritz seems like a guy who he knows that he didn’t cheat, so he doesn’t need to desperately insist that he’s clean. Maybe he isn’t; I don’t really care. But the implication you’re trying to make is nonsense either way.

It's not nonsense. There's evidence of illegal L-carnitine infusions under Salazar. Enough that Des and many others don't trust him. I'm not implicating anything that hasn't already been put out there in credible reports.

Some thoughts on why the U.S. has fewer 2:10 guys than some other countries:

How many Americans are there that focus on the marathon and running is their only job? Most of the professional runners in the U.S. that truly just run (many people would be surprised to find out what other jobs most 'professional' runners in the U.S. have) receive their contracts based on what they do in college, and the successful people in college are good at running the 5k/10k. There are only maybe 10 Americans per year that graduate and keep training full-time (no job making it difficult to do all the little things outside of the mileage) for the distance events, and many of these people continue to focus on the track because they have the potential to be the best in the country at the 5k/10k. I imagine there are fewer than 15 American men that focus on the marathon and running is their only job. From the countries that have multiple runners going sub 2:10, how many athletes do they have that running is their only job and spend 100% of their time thinking about training, recovery, and everything else that goes into getting faster? Japan has put a lot of money into their distance running programs, one piece of evidence is the nearly one million dollar bonus for running that 2:06 or so last month.

Hi HRE! I enjoyed your answer.

sanchobaile wrote:

Exo wrote:

How many times did Lance Armstrong profess to have always been clean and to have never broken the rules? Is that all it takes to convince you? To me, Ritz seems like a guy who he knows that he didn’t cheat, so he doesn’t need to desperately insist that he’s clean. Maybe he isn’t; I don’t really care. But the implication you’re trying to make is nonsense either way.

It's not nonsense. There's evidence of illegal L-carnitine infusions under Salazar. Enough that Des and many others don't trust him. I'm not implicating anything that hasn't already been put out there in credible reports.

The implication that his choice not to loudly protest his innocence is indicative of guilt is nonsense, yes. And the reported “illegal L-carnitine infusions” would be a rules violation only because of the volume of liquid used. L-carnitine is not a regulated or tested for PED.

Exo wrote:

The implication that his choice not to loudly protest his innocence is indicative of guilt is nonsense, yes. And the reported “illegal L-carnitine infusions” would be a rules violation only because of the volume of liquid used. L-carnitine is not a regulated or tested for PED.

You can be guaranteed that your favorite athletes from the past 20 years have done similar things, we just don't know about it because nobody has been given reason to look into them and their coach due to his/her profile. For instance, I know for sure that one of our Olympic marathoners (non-NOP Nike) in that timeframe did similar infusions with a different non-banned substance. It's incredibly common and so easy to get away with, unless they tell on themselves or their medical practitioner is forced to turn them in.

trackislife12 wrote:

Desi became hated when she bashed ritz, for literally no reason at all. He joined Hanson’s after leaving NOP and whistleblowing on them. He knew it was wrong and reported it. All Desi is doing is distancing herself from a man who wanted clean sport. I do not like her at all.

She's a very negative and prejudiced person.

trackislife12 wrote:

Desi became hated when she bashed ritz, for literally no reason at all. He joined Hanson’s after leaving NOP and whistleblowing on them. He knew it was wrong and reported it. All Desi is doing is distancing herself from a man who wanted clean sport. I do not like her at all.

She's very concerned with him finding out about her drug use, and whistle blowing about her.