Women's Cycling, where Biological Male, wins Women's World Championship (UCI) for age 35-39 Masters when representing Canada

Nobody has pointed out that doesn't he/she look like Dwight Schrute with dark hair??

Fairness is for little people wrote:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/olympics/2018/01/11/these-transgender-cyclists-have-olympian-disagreement-how-define-fairness/995434001/

"McKinnon says whether other competitors believe transgender women have an unfair advantage is irrelevant because she says there is no way to measure if such advantages even exist."

this is how these trans athletes rationalize it. They tell themselves you can't tell if their advantage is due to male hormones or if they are just good athletes. The fact is though that an average man should be able to compete with elite women and the above average man will beat them every time. Women's competition should be for people who were born biologically female only.

"She" looks pretty masculine and flat chested.

Wolf's Bane wrote:

"McKinnon says whether other competitors believe transgender women have an unfair advantage is irrelevant because she says there is no way to measure if such advantages even exist."

Well then it works both ways, and there should therefore be no reason preventing McKinnon and the other women from competing with the men as there is no way to measure that either sex has an advantage.

Simply a joke.

Some men need a good hard kick in the balls. So do some women.

Biologically speaking, this is NOT the same issue as Caster Semenya. But on rhetorical grounds, the Caster situation was always meant to usher in this nonsense. You get people to give a little ground on one complicated issue, and in short order, people are are accepting outright ridiculous nonsense like this.

Unless you people wake up and start to demand that society sets unbreakable boundaries (like a man can't compete athletically against women) we will keep sliding further into this nonsense upside-down twilight zone.

Wake up people!

Wolf's Bane wrote:

Fairness is for little people wrote:

"McKinnon says whether other competitors believe transgender women have an unfair advantage is irrelevant because she says there is no way to measure if such advantages even exist."

this is how these trans athletes rationalize it. They tell themselves you can't tell if their advantage is due to male hormones or if they are just good athletes. The fact is though that an average man should be able to compete with elite women and the above average man will beat them every time. Women's competition should be for people who were born biologically female only.

“We cannot have a woman legally recognized as a trans woman in society, and not be recognized that way in sports. Focusing on performance advantage is largely irrelevant because this is a rights issue. We shouldn’t be worried about trans people taking over the Olympics. We should be worried about their fairness and human rights instead.”

Another gem from Rachel:

we have no idea why men, on average, outperform women...ON AVERAGE.

Also: I think a lot of the current gap is sociological, not biological.

Indeed, if you allow "women" to be a sociological (not biological) construct, then indeed the observed gap is such too.

Definitely not the Swedish Bikini team….

This guy/girl reminds me of the runners that you see at road races that try like hell to outkick their female competitors at the end of their local fun run. I guess you could call it a MANifestation of male insecurity. Sorry pal, but your biological testosterone levels that are 5 times what theirs are should prohibit you from competing against them, as much as you might like to consider yourself to be a woman. When it comes to athletics, you need to compete as you were born.

Welcome to the Democrat’s view of “fairness” and “inclusion”.

We can be compassionate to those with mental illness without completely abandoning common sense.[/quote]

I'm a Democrat and I think the supposed legitimacy of men competing as women is BS -- not fair at all, and no need to have full inclusion in this case. At the same time, I think the current mainstream of the Republican party is generally bigoted when it comes to trans people in other areas of society.

That previous comment is not mine. If you have testosterone build bigger muscles, stronger bones, and levers (limb length), most of that is not going away in 12 months of changing hormones. That makes for necessarily unfair competition if the man was decent before hormone therapy. (Hormone therapy for 12 months is required for the UCI qualification). So, this was patently unfair and unsportsmanlike competition on McKinnon's part.

Not all Dems Think So wrote:

At the same time, I think the current mainstream of the Republican party is generally bigoted when it comes to trans people in other areas of society.

Well, your conception that Repubs are bigots sure fits the party mantra well.

"Patently Unfair" only to those anti-trans bigots who believe that "Testosterone" is some sort of magic elixir, to which non-males like women don't have "enough" of in the first place.

Women ARE NOT just "disabled men" (?!) like you imply.

Science and CAS proves otherwise, that there's a whole array of factors that NO ONE understands yet. The so-called "gap" might be more sociological, than on the biological side of things as "experts" (almost uniformly notably cisgendered and latently anti-trans by societal influence) don't really know yet.

celery wrote:

Biologically speaking, this is NOT the same issue as Caster Semenya. But on rhetorical grounds, the Caster situation was always meant to usher in this nonsense. You get people to give a little ground on one complicated issue, and in short order, people are are accepting outright ridiculous nonsense like this.

Unless you people wake up and start to demand that society sets unbreakable boundaries (like a man can't compete athletically against women) we will keep sliding further into this nonsense upside-down twilight zone.

Wake up people!

People? Shouldn't empowered American women be taking the lead on this? Like they did on the Kavanaugh confirmation thing.

Interesting that she has to take meds to suppress testosterone levels.

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/transgender-woman-track-cycling-1.4863381

Unless you people wake up and start to demand that society sets unbreakable boundaries (like a man can't compete athletically against women) we will keep sliding further into this nonsense upside-down twilight zone.

Society used to have "unbreakable" boundaries about apartheid in sports, claiming that one race had a "natural talent advantage" or whatever against the others, so it would "patently unfair" to merge their competition or whatever nonsense terminology you want to use.

They even disparagingly compared diverse humanity to "dog breeds" to make their point, saying that a chihuahua couldn't fight a Doberman fairly.

This is only an upside-down twi-lit zone if you cling to your bigoted bias.