Mileage to see improvement

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  • twincitiesrunner
    1 year ago 10/13/2018 8:37pm CDT
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    Advice from anyone is welcome.

    I am a 29 year old female who started running a few years ago. I finally have the time and energy to be serious about running (serious for me means meeting certain time goals, improving my pace, ect.). I have made a lot of improvement with consistent speed work and tempo but my weakness has generally been inconsistent base mileage. I generally run 20-25 miles per week. My goal is to improve from a 23:00 min 5k to a 21 min 5k.

    Basically, what mileage would I aim to build up to in that attempt. I know 2 minutes in the 5k is a pretty significant jump and I'm not expecting this to be a short term goal by any means- Any advice is welcome.

    Also- I am 5'6 and 119-120 lbs so I am in pretty good shape- I have felt the best physically at 116-117 so while I'm a little over where I feel I race the best it's not like I have 10+ lbs to lose.

    Thanks!
  • Sand Dunes
    registered
    1 year ago 10/13/2018 8:40pm CDT
    re: twincitiesrunner
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    Just run more.
  • Pappy
    1 year ago 10/13/2018 9:37pm CDT
    re: twincitiesrunner
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    See what happens at 40 mpw. I never improved lower than that. 30-60 minutes a day.
  • my 2c
    1 year ago 10/13/2018 11:28pm CDT
    re: twincitiesrunner
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    I agree that you can expect some substantial improvement just by getting up to 35-40 mpw.
  • robert678
    1 year ago 10/14/2018 12:43am CDT
    re: twincitiesrunner
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    The improvement from 20-25 mpw to 35-40 mpw is dramatic. After 40 mpw you still improve, just much less so.
    I would recommend just getting used to running 6-7 days a week on a consistent weekly schedule (ex: run at 6am everyday before work Mon-Fri and 7am on Saturday, rest on Sunday).
    Also, make sure every run is at least 4 miles, and make sure long run is at least 8 miles. That right there gets you to 28 mpw on 6 days a week of training. Then increase the easy runs to 5-6 and long run to 10 and you'll be doing great.
  • Sdfsdfsdfsdfsdfsdf
    registered
    1 year ago 10/14/2018 12:54am CDT
    re: robert678
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    robert678 wrote:

    The improvement from 20-25 mpw to 35-40 mpw is dramatic. After 40 mpw you still improve, just much less so.
    I would recommend just getting used to running 6-7 days a week on a consistent weekly schedule (ex: run at 6am everyday before work Mon-Fri and 7am on Saturday, rest on Sunday).
    Also, make sure every run is at least 4 miles, and make sure long run is at least 8 miles. That right there gets you to 28 mpw on 6 days a week of training. Then increase the easy runs to 5-6 and long run to 10 and you'll be doing great.


    +1 to this. In my experience, 40mpw seems to be about the point of diminishing returns.
  • Mo miles
    1 year ago 10/15/2018 10:17am CDT
    re: Sdfsdfsdfsdfsdfsdf
    Forum Index
    Agree agree agree. Depending on the runner I find that 40-45 mpw is where you see a significant improvement in the overall quality of your running and training
  • More miles and workouts
    1 year ago 10/15/2018 11:28am CDT
    re: Mo miles
    Forum Index
    Add miles/days, run at least 6 days a week, 2 workouts a week (1 track, 1 tempo), and a 1:30 long run and you will see a lot of improvement. Good luck
  • Xraydoc
    1 year ago 10/16/2018 8:35am CDT
    re: twincitiesrunner
    Forum Index
    To piggyback off of the OP, is it better to split the miles evenly throughout the week while increasing the base, or do long runs/tempos while upping the mileage?
  • alsal
    registered
    1 year ago 10/16/2018 9:21am CDT
    re: twincitiesrunner
    Forum Index
    twincitiesrunner wrote:

    Advice from anyone is welcome.

    I am a 29 year old female who started running a few years ago. I finally have the time and energy to be serious about running (serious for me means meeting certain time goals, improving my pace, ect.). I have made a lot of improvement with consistent speed work and tempo but my weakness has generally been inconsistent base mileage. I generally run 20-25 miles per week. My goal is to improve from a 23:00 min 5k to a 21 min 5k.

    Basically, what mileage would I aim to build up to in that attempt. I know 2 minutes in the 5k is a pretty significant jump and I'm not expecting this to be a short term goal by any means- Any advice is welcome.

    Also- I am 5'6 and 119-120 lbs so I am in pretty good shape- I have felt the best physically at 116-117 so while I'm a little over where I feel I race the best it's not like I have 10+ lbs to lose.

    Thanks!

    running more miles will obviously improve youre time noone can say for sure whether 30 35 or 40 will mean you get that target but it should be attainable.
  • keepgoing
    1 year ago 10/16/2018 9:26am CDT
    re: Xraydoc
    Forum Index
    Xraydoc wrote:

    To piggyback off of the OP, is it better to split the miles evenly throughout the week while increasing the base, or do long runs/tempos while upping the mileage?


    Both can work well, but I think you get more from splitting the mileage around. If you do even runs and hit 40mpw on 6 runs, you're getting around 6-7 miles per run. But if you split things to get a long run in there and a tougher workout, then your easy days can be shorter and, well, easier.

    5 easy
    8 w/ workout
    5 easy
    7 easy
    10-12 long
    5 easy

    There's more variation in the stimulus. But I also find that when you adapt to something like the above schedule, it's easier to take the periodic 5 mile easy run and bump them up to 6, then 7, and then you can used to some slightly higher mileage and also find you split runs again by doing something like extending the long run and maybe having two mid-week runs that get close to 10 miles. Etc.
  • Anotherrunnerkb
    1 year ago 10/16/2018 12:07pm CDT
    re: twincitiesrunner
    Forum Index
    Hi

    I’ve gone from 23:30 ish to 20:50 in 9 months (only been running for a year). I’m a 28 yo f similar build (maybe slightly heavier!)

    I run most days, at least 3 miles. Long run is generally between 8 and 11 miles. Hit 30 mpw easy, some weeks 40, struggle to get over 45 with work commitments at the minute.

    Best advice I can give is keep easy runs really easy so that you can put the effort in on the efforts.

    I run my easy miles anywhere between 8:30 min/mile and 10 min/mile.

    For reference though, I’m definitely faster than I am endurance, and can run a sub-6 min mile already.
  • xraydoc
    1 year ago 10/19/2018 1:42pm CDT
    re: keepgoing
    Forum Index
    Very helpful thank you
  • Sand dunes.
    1 year ago 10/19/2018 2:08pm CDT
    re: twincitiesrunner
    Forum Index
    Pics?
  • salted jock
    1 year ago 10/19/2018 2:25pm CDT
    re: keepgoing
    Forum Index
    keepgoing wrote:

    Xraydoc wrote:

    To piggyback off of the OP, is it better to split the miles evenly throughout the week while increasing the base, or do long runs/tempos while upping the mileage?


    Both can work well, but I think you get more from splitting the mileage around. If you do even runs and hit 40mpw on 6 runs, you're getting around 6-7 miles per run. But if you split things to get a long run in there and a tougher workout, then your easy days can be shorter and, well, easier.

    5 easy
    8 w/ workout
    5 easy
    7 easy
    10-12 long
    5 easy

    There's more variation in the stimulus. But I also find that when you adapt to something like the above schedule, it's easier to take the periodic 5 mile easy run and bump them up to 6, then 7, and then you can used to some slightly higher mileage and also find you split runs again by doing something like extending the long run and maybe having two mid-week runs that get close to 10 miles. Etc.


    To add to this, keep your long run to about 20-25% of your weekly mileage. There is no need for a 5k runner to dump tons of miles into a long run, as long as you are running frequently and accumulating solid weekly mileage.
  • SUPERIOR COACH JS
    registered
    1 year ago 10/19/2018 3:34pm CDT
    re: twincitiesrunner
    Forum Index
    twincitiesrunner wrote:

    Advice from anyone is welcome.

    I am a 29 year old female who started running a few years ago. I finally have the time and energy to be serious about running (serious for me means meeting certain time goals, improving my pace, ect.). I have made a lot of improvement with consistent speed work and tempo but my weakness has generally been inconsistent base mileage. I generally run 20-25 miles per week. My goal is to improve from a 23:00 min 5k to a 21 min 5k.

    Basically, what mileage would I aim to build up to in that attempt. I know 2 minutes in the 5k is a pretty significant jump and I'm not expecting this to be a short term goal by any means- Any advice is welcome.

    Also- I am 5'6 and 119-120 lbs so I am in pretty good shape- I have felt the best physically at 116-117 so while I'm a little over where I feel I race the best it's not like I have 10+ lbs to lose.

    Thanks!
    Just stop thinking of mileage! Aim to reach runs of 50-60 min at your very best aerobic power pace and run 2 workouts per week . One maxVO2-interval and one lactate threshold interval. That`s it ! Works every time at every level of runner.

    - Just Magic -
  • Typical LR Bro
    1 year ago 10/19/2018 7:43pm CDT
    re: twincitiesrunner
    Forum Index
    120-140 mpw MINIMUM with additional cross training. Also, lift weights 3x a week. When you win your local turkey trot next month, thank us by doing a pelvic thrust and yelling, "Gobble, gobble, MFers!!!" at the finish line.

    Report back.
  • former coach
    1 year ago 10/22/2018 4:15am CDT
    re: SUPERIOR COACH JS
    Forum Index
    SUPERIOR COACH JS wrote:

    Just stop thinking of mileage! Aim to reach runs of 50-60 min at your very best aerobic power pace and run 2 workouts per week . One maxVO2-interval and one lactate threshold interval. That`s it ! Works every time at every level of runner.

    - Just Magic -


    "Just stop thinking of mileage!" Proceeds to suggest heavy mileage and intensity increases.

    Superior, you may coach elite athletes (well, the jury is still out on that claim) but that is NOT how you coach a relative newbie lacking any sort of base.
  • Getting Serious w/ Running
    1 year ago 10/22/2018 4:52am CDT
    re: twincitiesrunner
    Forum Index
    twincitiesrunner wrote:

    Advice from anyone is welcome.

    I am a 29 year old female who started running a few years ago. I finally have the time and energy to be serious about running (serious for me means meeting certain time goals, improving my pace, ect.). I have made a lot of improvement with consistent speed work and tempo but my weakness has generally been inconsistent base mileage. I generally run 20-25 miles per week. My goal is to improve from a 23:00 min 5k to a 21 min 5k.

    Basically, what mileage would I aim to build up to in that attempt. I know 2 minutes in the 5k is a pretty significant jump and I'm not expecting this to be a short term goal by any means- Any advice is welcome.

    Also- I am 5'6 and 119-120 lbs so I am in pretty good shape- I have felt the best physically at 116-117 so while I'm a little over where I feel I race the best it's not like I have 10+ lbs to lose.

    Thanks!


    Start running for TIME. Don't worry about mileage. For example, instead of running 4 miles a day, run for 40 minutes a day. Then, you can more easily increase your overall volume based on time (and the miles will come naturally). Since you said you finally have the time & energy to be serious about running, you can gradually increase to 60 minutes a day + a long run (on the weekend of 90 minutes).

    WEEK 1: 40 minutes daily + long run (60 minutes). Strides 3 times a week. Off Sunday.
    WEEK 2: 45 minutes daily + long run (70 minutes). Strides 3 times a week. Off Sunday.
    WEEK 3: 50 minutes daily + long run (70 minutes). Strides 3 times a week. Off Sunday.
    WEEK 4: 55 minutes daily + long run (80 minutes). Strides 3 times a week. Off Sunday.
    WEEK 5: 60 minutes daily + long run (90 minutes). Strides 3 times a week. Off Sunday.

    Maybe you need a "down week" in this build-up. That's okay. Maybe you want to do an easy shake-out run on Sunday. That's okay too. Nothing is written in stone. Having a good run? Make it progressive where you end faster than you started.

    You're simply doing mileage AND hitting some top-end speed (i.e. strides). Once you hit WEEK 5, hold that mileage & see how you feel, watch your body adapt (over the course of the next few months). You can start to add-in workouts once your body stabilizes to your new mileage too.

    Grab Jack Daniels' book. Grab an Arthur Lydiard book. (A lot of people like Ron Livingston's take on Lydiard's training.) Grab Brad Hudson's book. Good luck!