You keep moving the goalposts. If corruption brings into question doping because of the moral shortcomings, then cheating on your wife sure as h*ll does too.
You keep moving the goalposts. If corruption brings into question doping because of the moral shortcomings, then cheating on your wife sure as h*ll does too.
sketchy salazar wrote:
You keep moving the goalposts. If corruption brings into question doping because of the moral shortcomings, then cheating on your wife sure as h*ll does too.
They aren't the same goal posts. Do you sometimes cheat at board games, or run the odd red light? Big deal. I guess you haven't faced actual charges of criminal misconduct lately, like Keino is facing. (And adultery doesn't generally result in criminal charges - unless you live in a country run by religious fanatics).
Armstronglivs wrote:
sketchy salazar wrote:
You keep moving the goalposts. If corruption brings into question doping because of the moral shortcomings, then cheating on your wife sure as h*ll does too.
They aren't the same goal posts. Do you sometimes cheat at board games, or run the odd red light? Big deal. I guess you haven't faced actual charges of criminal misconduct lately, like Keino is facing. (And adultery doesn't generally result in criminal charges - unless you live in a country run by religious fanatics).
Obviously there is a spectrum to cheating, but the original criticism is that corruption would mean a greater inclination to dope because of the immorality, which would absolutely be true of an affair and not true of speeding, but now you are adding "sports related" because you realize this.
Entertaining by the mental gymnastics, I'll hand you that.
sketchy salazar wrote:
You keep moving the goalposts. If corruption brings into question doping because of the moral shortcomings, then cheating on your wife sure as h*ll does too.
If I have misunderstood your point and you do think adultery suggests doping as much as corruption charges do, then you are simply constructing further argument against Keino. Otherwise you have to argue that not every form of cheating (including Coe's adultery) would be consistent with being a doper. But that isn't what you appear to be saying.
Wasn't Kip Keino critical in the busting of Boulami? So, that wouldn't be the same as me cheating and also cheating with with my select people, It's much worse because a typical cheater isn't busting others. Of course, this is a game played by many nations, bust yours cover ours ( with TUE's, or stupid conclusions about tainted meat, test warnings or whatever) , or in the case of Kenya , extort or bust depending. It's hilarious actually. LIke the world of athletics is run by bad children.
The people arguing about it in defense of their country, while pointing fingers at others, look childish too.
El Keniano wrote:
Entertaining by the mental gymnastics, I'll hand you that.
But your ducking the question also shows impressive gymnastic skills. So how does Keino run the best race of his life directly from his sick-bed? Who else has ever done that - clean?
sketchy salazar wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
They aren't the same goal posts. Do you sometimes cheat at board games, or run the odd red light? Big deal. I guess you haven't faced actual charges of criminal misconduct lately, like Keino is facing. (And adultery doesn't generally result in criminal charges - unless you live in a country run by religious fanatics).
Obviously there is a spectrum to cheating, but the original criticism is that corruption would mean a greater inclination to dope because of the immorality, which would absolutely be true of an affair and not true of speeding, but now you are adding "sports related" because you realize this.
The "spectrum" you refer to is absolutely crucial to understanding how much weight should be given to the form of cheating cited as evidence of character and thus conduct in a related field. A lawyer who embezzles a client can't be trusted with any of his clients, but a lawyer who commits adultery simply can't be trusted with another man's wife.
Armstronglivs wrote:
booooobooooo wrote:
It can but you are anti-Kenyan so why should I or anyone else try to present a theory as to why a Kenyan performed in a way you deem suspicious?
They're all guilty age cheats with receding hairlines and only a white boy can run 3:31 for 1500 m, right?
I am anti-dopers - anywhere. And quite a few Kenyans are dopers.
nahhh, you're anti-Kenya(n)/Morocco/blacks that beat whites.
That has been proven time and again and I am not the only one saying that.
Like I said, I could tell you how Keino may have managed that performance despite the fact that he was bed-ridden, but I would be wasting my time.
Because for you Jakob running 3:31 = amazing clean talent, Kenyan runner running sub 3:32 = age cheat doper.
Like El Keniano said, entertaining. But sad.
Armstronglivs wrote:
sketchy salazar wrote:
Obviously there is a spectrum to cheating, but the original criticism is that corruption would mean a greater inclination to dope because of the immorality, which would absolutely be true of an affair and not true of speeding, but now you are adding "sports related" because you realize this.
The "spectrum" you refer to is absolutely crucial to understanding how much weight should be given to the form of cheating cited as evidence of character and thus conduct in a related field. A lawyer who embezzles a client can't be trusted with any of his clients, but a lawyer who commits adultery simply can't be trusted with another man's wife.
You have often used Kiprop's behavior in his daily life (with women, with other people in general) to justify your hatred.
But now if it's not running-related it's not relevant anymore?
See? This is why I won't bother explaining to you how Keino beat your favorite runner on the day.
Yeah, favorite, you may not have a preference for Ryun but you have shown time and again you call the first white runner across the line the real winner/record holder.
Anyway, I am done here.
I'll wait for your next thread.
Pain from passing gallstones is relatively brief, usually two to three hours. After it's gone, you actually feel rejuvenated. Good as new as if nothing happened. I know this first hand.
Armstronglivs wrote:
booooobooooo wrote:
It can but you are anti-Kenyan so why should I or anyone else try to present a theory as to why a Kenyan performed in a way you deem suspicious?
They're all guilty age cheats with receding hairlines and only a white boy can run 3:31 for 1500 m, right?
I am anti-dopers - anywhere. And quite a few Kenyans are dopers.
No fooling! Kenyan dopers getting busted!...what a total freaking joke! If these Kenyans are natural born runners with so much talent and supposedly train harder than anyone else, then WTF are they doping for? A total joke! ?
https://www.athleticsintegrity.org/disciplinary-process/provisional-suspensions-in-forcebooooobooooo wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
I am anti-dopers - anywhere. And quite a few Kenyans are dopers.
nahhh, you're anti-Kenya(n)/Morocco/blacks that beat whites.
That has been proven time and again and I am not the only one saying that.
Like I said, I could tell you how Keino may have managed that performance despite the fact that he was bed-ridden, but I would be wasting my time.
Because for you Jakob running 3:31 = amazing clean talent, Kenyan runner running sub 3:32 = age cheat doper.
Like El Keniano said, entertaining. But sad.
Well, it's easy to claim racism to deflect argument that you can't refute but I have made none of the points that you say I have. I repeat: doping is present everywhere in elite sports - in all countries and amongst all races. That likely includes even Norwegians and other white Westerners (but that is not the subject of this thread, which is about Keino.) Can your little brain grasp that now, or are you going to stick to your "victim" approach and claim it's still about racism?
booooobooooo wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
The "spectrum" you refer to is absolutely crucial to understanding how much weight should be given to the form of cheating cited as evidence of character and thus conduct in a related field. A lawyer who embezzles a client can't be trusted with any of his clients, but a lawyer who commits adultery simply can't be trusted with another man's wife.
You have often used Kiprop's behavior in his daily life (with women, with other people in general) to justify your hatred.
But now if it's not running-related it's not relevant anymore?
See? This is why I won't bother explaining to you how Keino beat your favorite runner on the day.
Yeah, favorite, you may not have a preference for Ryun but you have shown time and again you call the first white runner across the line the real winner/record holder.
Anyway, I am done here.
I'll wait for your next thread.
I don't know who you think I am but I have never posted about Kiprop. I have only come to this site recently. Do you think everyone that you disagree with is the same person?
El Keniano wrote:
Pain from passing gallstones is relatively brief, usually two to three hours. After it's gone, you actually feel rejuvenated. Good as new as if nothing happened. I know this first hand.
And I know others for whom it was incredibly painful and debilitating. There was no overnight recovery. But regardless of your own experience, I would hardly expect it to be performance-enhancing. Of course I cannot claim proof that Keino doped at Mexico but surely the nature of his recovery and level of performance raises the question of doping - which it would do of any athlete doing the same? The sports corruption charges don't help in maintaining that doping would be against his principles.
Armstronglivs wrote:
El Keniano wrote:
Pain from passing gallstones is relatively brief, usually two to three hours. After it's gone, you actually feel rejuvenated. Good as new as if nothing happened. I know this first hand.
And I know others for whom it was incredibly painful and debilitating. There was no overnight recovery. But regardless of your own experience, I would hardly expect it to be performance-enhancing. Of course I cannot claim proof that Keino doped at Mexico but surely the nature of his recovery and level of performance raises the question of doping - which it would do of any athlete doing the same? The sports corruption charges don't help in maintaining that doping would be against his principles.
No. He's been one of the most blunt voices against the threat of doping in Kenya, often nostalgic of his days when "real" runners didn't need scientific assistance. But keep speaking for him.
Armstronglivs wrote:
But the main point of how Keino produces an out-of-the-box performance immediately after being laid up on his sick-bed is assiduously avoided. It can't be simply explained away.
So you are implying he doped?The logic of your argument makes no sense. You seem to be saying he was in bad form so he doped. But if was willing to dope for the 1500 then why didn't he also dope for his beloved 5000?
Or are you saying in the hospital he like unkowingly doped?
KripKreeno wrote:
Look at the IAAF report on doping from the 1968 Olympics. Everyone was tested - drugs were not illegal at the time. ALL of the Jamaicans and Kenyans were on drugs. Charlie Francis (Ben Johnson's coach) went into this in his book "Speed Trap". Of course, things are so PC this can't be mentioned.
and
Coevett wrote:
Keino (and the other top Kenyans - including Rudisha's father) were having dreadful seasons in 68 after ousting the Dutch doctor who had singlehandedly turned Kenya into a distance running powerhouse. There had apparently been a clash of egos with Kip accusing the Dutch guy of colonialism and taking all the credit. Nevertheless, just before Mexico peace was restored and Dutchie got his job back. The rest is history.
Is any of the above true?
If so, can someone give me a few links or books to read?
It's going to depress the shit out of me if people were doping like crazy in 1968 - legal or not.
So there is a 7 page thread on Keino being indicted but no one bothers to point out that an article today says he may not be arrested. Instaed he'll be a witness against others.
https://www.capitalfm.co.ke/sports/2018/10/18/legendary-keino-likely-witness-in-rio-olympics-case/
What's not clear from the article is whether he's innocent or whether everything is the result of “what is seen as heavy political influence to have him set free.”
Like I said, Keino was a fantastic athlete but staggeringly incompetent as an administrator. He may have been unaware of the mess he was presiding over but that could also just as well be Kenyans being in denial that their greatest sporting icon, with the saintly image, could be involved in such sordidness.
Anyway, it just hit me that Armstronglivs is really Coevett and this thread was a waste of my time. And no Kenyans had even heard of PEDs in 1968 when they were first discovering they could run better than the rest of the world, even with minimal facilities.