Kip Keino and six other senior Kenyan officials charged with corruption

ironside wrote:

Don't over think amphetamines in T&F. It's a know fact amphetamines were sitting in MLB locker rooms openly through at least 1970's. Athletes, sport reports, everyone knows. Don't twist yourself in a pretzel over thinking amphetamines in T&F. It's not logical to believe amphetamines were openly used in baseball locker rooms but were shunned in track & field locker rooms.

Amphetamines, just one more thing to thank the Nazis for.

Barakus Obama wrote:

El Keniano wrote:

Here's the full race from '68. If Ryun was in the shape to go with Keino, he's entirely to blame for letting him out of his reach. But something tells me Kip wouldn't have lost to anyone that day no matter what.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_9AAy7yZTc

Not saying Ruyn was the better runner, but this was at altitude. Its just ridiculous to compare. An altitude born runner like Keino had a massive advantage.

And right on cue, he shows up to support those trying to discredit Kenya's most famous victory.

El Keniano wrote:

Barakus Obama wrote:

Not saying Ruyn was the better runner, but this was at altitude. Its just ridiculous to compare. An altitude born runner like Keino had a massive advantage.

And right on cue, he shows up to support those trying to discredit Kenya's most famous victory.

Perhaps the most famous, but not nearly the greatest. Kenya has numerous great victories, winning at altitude against runners from sea level doesn't even crack top 10 if you want to look objectively at it.

Agree?

Aragon wrote:

So you have no academic reference

none is needed, any more than is needed to prove interval training works.

You realize amphetamines are banned only in competition, right? And can be obtained legally with little difficulty from doctors. So this is something a lot of people have first-hand experience with.

Bad Wigins wrote:

Aragon wrote:

So you have no academic reference

none is needed, any more than is needed to prove interval training works.

You realize amphetamines are banned only in competition, right? And can be obtained legally with little difficulty from doctors. So this is something a lot of people have first-hand experience with.

A substance can "work" if it increases performance only by 1.0 %, and even lower expected benefits could enough reason for many athletes to abuse it.

Assuming that amphetamine gives some super-benefit, one would expect a significant drop in the performances in the late 1960's when doping testing began, but when one compares - for instance - the 1968 Winter Olympics where testing was conducted to the 1964 Games, every single event with one exception (men 30 km) is significantly faster after the introduction of urine testing. Not fully comparable particularly when the distances are far from exact, but still - for instance - the 50km race time was 9.2 % better in '68 vs. '64.

Barakus Obama wrote:

El Keniano wrote:

And right on cue, he shows up to support those trying to discredit Kenya's most famous victory.

Perhaps the most famous, but not nearly the greatest. Kenya has numerous great victories, winning at altitude against runners from sea level doesn't even crack top 10 if you want to look objectively at it.

Agree?

Ryun was recovering from illness earlier in the year. He lost by twenty metres to a runner he had owned before '68, who ran the best race of his life (and altitude performance) from his sick-bed. As usual, nothing to see here - even though the said runner is now on corruption charges. How surprising.

here is something to cheer up ol elK

https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2018/10/16/tuesday-hot-clicks-kenya-hockey-team-sidney-crosby-nathan-mackinnon-video

Armstronglivs wrote:

Barakus Obama wrote:

Perhaps the most famous, but not nearly the greatest. Kenya has numerous great victories, winning at altitude against runners from sea level doesn't even crack top 10 if you want to look objectively at it.

Agree?

Ryun was recovering from illness earlier in the year. He lost by twenty metres to a runner he had owned before '68, who ran the best race of his life (and altitude performance) from his sick-bed. As usual, nothing to see here - even though the said runner is now on corruption charges. How surprising.

+1

Hopefully they'll offer Keino a reduced sentence if he tells EVERYTHING that he knows about doping in Kenya, including during his own running career.

Subway Surfers wrote:

Repeated studies have shown caffeine gives a c1% boost, so it isn't unplausible that other stimulant-type drugs could deliver a superior performance. Interestingly, the sea-level 100m WR barely improved between 1964 and 1990, if we take out Ben Johnson (which officially has happened). That in itself asks for an investigation.

The sea level 100m Wr barely improved until the 1980s because most sprinters (at least in the US) would stop their career after the end of college.

Bob Hayes raced his last 100m at 21 in 1964, before making it to the NFL.Hines who won in 1968 was 22 and did not bother to go further and choose the same path. Their lone olympic participation was pretty much one of the very few (if not the only one) overseas meet they took part.

Do you believe that, if these guys had the financial incentives to pursue their track career beyond the age of 22, they wouldn't have had the chance to drop their times, or did they simply entered the NFL by default ?

I am curious but what kind of structure of sponsorship deal would have allowed such athletes to pursue their career beyond their collegial eligibilty ?

Heck in 1976, a 17 yrs old(male) medalled for the US in the 200m, and a 19 yrs old made the 4th place in the 100m.

This kind of thing would be much harder nowadays because teenagers would have to deal with the 22-30yrs pro, who are allowed to stay in sport due to their shoe contracts.

Steroids were already avalaible between the 1960 and 1980 and were not even banned until the mid 1970, so that is obviously not the only answer. It is not until the 1980 that T&F became a pro sport, look at the 100m record holders of the 1980s, they were well beyond "college-age".

A speed athlete's physical peak is generally between 20-25 - if they are natural and have trained and competed earlier. That more and more athletes - and not just sprinters - are recording pr's at significantly older ages is enabled by the usual thing.

Armstronglivs wrote:

Barakus Obama wrote:

Perhaps the most famous, but not nearly the greatest. Kenya has numerous great victories, winning at altitude against runners from sea level doesn't even crack top 10 if you want to look objectively at it.

Agree?

Ryun was recovering from illness earlier in the year. He lost by twenty metres to a runner he had owned before '68, who ran the best race of his life (and altitude performance) from his sick-bed. As usual, nothing to see here - even though the said runner is now on corruption charges. How surprising.

Is this real? So LRC's band of racist, pathological basement dwelling conspiracists, on top of their usual pathetic flailing, have now resorted to trying to tarnish Kip Keino as doped in 1968 (ergo every Kenyan that's ever run since) because he was head of the mismanaged, chaotic and corrupt Kenyan Olympic committee in 2016? My sides! ? ? ?

Keino stomped on Ryun 50 years ago. So interesting to me how much most of you are still not over it as seen by your continual efforts to dismiss and discredit that famous upset. Most repeated excuses:

1. Kenya started a secret doping programme in the 60s that helped Keino and the entire Kenyan team in 1968.

2. It doesn't count because it was high altitude and Kip, being Kenyan, had a massive and unfair advantage over everyone else. Note that altitude is only advantageous for Kenyans because there are no high altitude locations in places like the United States, Switzerland or Scotland. Even Mexicans couldn't run well in their own city, weighted down by the altitude that only favours Kenyans.

3. Ben Jipcho illegally rabbited the race for Kip. We believe him because he allegedly apologised to Ryun personally. Ryun said so and he's a better Christian than Kip. Never mind that Kip says it's all rubbish and he wasn't even due to run because he was famously hospitalised with gallstones until just minutes before the actual race. But given legendary Kenyan cunning, a few minutes is all they needed to come up with such an elaborate strategy. The whole world has helplessly fallen victim to hyper evil Kenyans.

Again, in case you missed it, Ryun lost by 20 metres. That is not close. If he had raced smarter, he might have lost by 10 metres, but no one was beating Kip on that day.

In the interest of balance, Americans don't have a monopoly on dimness, as you can see. This has to be explained to some Kenyans too.

https://twitter.com/FestusSang/status/1052217310742814720

Firstly, there is every chance someone like Keino was on roids at 1968 Olympics, there is nothing to say Ryun wasn't either. The truth is Keino won, Keino vs Ryun doesn't matter because not long later Walker came a long and was faster and 1000 times cooler than both combined.

Yes Mr Aduck2022's speed peptide.

"...no one was beating Kip on that day". Invincibility is hardly an argument against the possibility of doping. Quite the reverse.

El Keniano wrote:

In the interest of balance, Americans don't have a monopoly on dimness, as you can see. This has to be explained to some Kenyans too.

https://twitter.com/FestusSang/status/1052217310742814720

What a surprise. People are the same everywhere, its just the level (or lack of) education and cultural differences that makes people different. I know its hard for you to understand this, hating on white people in the west as you always do, but their the same as Kenya, just more educated for the most part.

Armstronglivs wrote:

Barakus Obama wrote:

Perhaps the most famous, but not nearly the greatest. Kenya has numerous great victories, winning at altitude against runners from sea level doesn't even crack top 10 if you want to look objectively at it.

Agree?

Ryun was recovering from illness earlier in the year. He lost by twenty metres to a runner he had owned before '68, who ran the best race of his life (and altitude performance) from his sick-bed. As usual, nothing to see here - even though the said runner is now on corruption charges. How surprising.

You're contradicting yourself

El Keniano wrote:

2. It doesn't count because it was high altitude and Kip, being Kenyan, had a massive and unfair advantage over everyone else. Note that altitude is only advantageous for Kenyans because there are no high altitude locations in places like the United States, Switzerland or Scotland. Even Mexicans couldn't run well in their own city, weighted down by the altitude that only favours Kenyans.

Again, in case you missed it, Ryun lost by 20 metres. That is not close. If he had raced smarter, he might have lost by 10 metres, but no one was beating Kip on that day.

Renato Canova:

Another thing : don't make the mistake to think that the altitude can penalize too much the pace in the case of a Kenyan living at high altitude. The difference for an athlete like Stephen or John Korir or Moses Mosop, that live normally at 2400m, in case of long run, may be of 5% compared with the same training at sea-level (3:20 in Iten = 3:10 at sea level). The best Kenyan runners in 10000m, if living at 2400 / 2700m, have difference between their PB in Nairobi and their PB at sea-level, not too big : John Korir 27:44 - 26:52 = 52.0 (5.2 per km), Paul Kosgei 27:44 - 27:21 = 23.0 (2.3 per km), Wilberforce Talel 27:46 - 27:30 = 16.0 (1.6 per km). Their parameters are not the same of European and American runners.

Rudishas run, for example, is far far greater.

Subway Surfers wrote:

Firstly, there is every chance someone like Keino was on roids at 1968 Olympics, there is nothing to say Ryun wasn't either. The truth is Keino won, Keino vs Ryun doesn't matter because not long later Walker came a long and was faster and 1000 times cooler than both combined.

And Filbert Bayi and Rono were better, cleaner versions of Keino.