Kipchoge the GOAT? No. No. No. With video.

This race is exactly why Gebrselassie trumps Bekele as the GOAT. Dude was past his prime and close to 40 and closed in 12:57, narrowly losing to Bekele. Geb = GOAT.

Is this the GOAT? wrote:

Did Kipchoge also run a 26:49 10,000m with a 12:57 second 5k in Paris?

Didn’t think so.

Every single time someone puts up a race time for a shorter distance people on the boards say it means nothing to what you could run for a marathon. Why would this be any different. Kipchoge running off of his marathon fitness would have no shot at beating a prime Bekele with fresh legs on the track. In fact that one race is probably the only time he did beat Bekele and as another post above states he was just coming off of running the 10k. Kipchoge is the best we have seen at the marathon, he tried for many years to be the best on the track and he was not able to do it. He has never broken a world record on the track and he only won 2 medals at the world championships. The last WC 5k he competed in he was only 7th and the next year he was beaten by Tadese at the half championships by over a minute and a half. The marathon is so different from the track it's not even worth trying to compare. Yes Patrick Sang said he thinks Kipchoge could run 26:10 for 10k, we all know that's rubbish and what a coach of an athlete coming off such an incredible performance should say. If he can run 26:10 go ahead and try it, you have nothing else to accomplish until 2020. Make it easier even, go for the road 10k record. It won't come to pass.

JKJKL wrote:

This race is exactly why Gebrselassie trumps Bekele as the GOAT. Dude was past his prime and close to 40 and closed in 12:57, narrowly losing to Bekele. Geb = GOAT.

Is this the GOAT? wrote:

Did Kipchoge also run a 26:49 10,000m with a 12:57 second 5k in Paris?

Didn’t think so.

Geb was 30 years old in 2003.

KipchogeAt12YearsOld wrote:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DWMZdOdriRdk&ved=2ahUKEwifm4eg8tTdAhUr0YMKHRmxBQMQtwIwAHoECAcQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1e81R7N4Jdrtf1ViP34PpA

Future marathon GOAT beating El G & Bekele in 5k, with a kick no less.

If you look at 10:33 when Kipchoge is smiling and holding the flag, he seems to be missing his front tooth??

When you watch the three Ethiopians wipe the floor with Kipchoge (finishing fourth) in 2004 in world xc, and then with no less than Tadesse finishing around 39 seconds behind Bekele, despite the slow start to 5k, and Craig Mottram, a 12:50s 5000m runner back 1:18, you just know that Hermens via his doctors, whether Healing Hans or the Dr. in Operation Puerto was supplying the Ethiopians the special drugs. No doubt that Bekele was a remarkable talent, a great, great xc runner, the greatest of all time, and training at considerably higher altitude than the Kenyans with probably considerably more hill work and sprinting (a lot of the training includes full on sprints in spikes on track and fartleks with sprints in the forest high above Addis), but there is also the period of no out of competition testing in Ethiopia and protection from the very, very corrupt head of the IAAF/corruption/bribes, as we now know, even though they were testing at meets for epo at the time.

Lamine Diack was re-elected in 168-1 in 2001 with no opposition after beginning in 1999 and ending his term in 2015, according to the article below.

https://www.iaaf.org/news/news/lamine-diack-becomes-first-president-of-the-i

New corruption charges for Lamine Diack:

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/sports/2018/09/15/more-sports/track-field/former-iaaf-chief-lamine-diack-faces-fresh-corruption-charges/#.W6pKMHtKi70

"Former IAAF chief Lamine Diack faces fresh corruption charges

AFP-JIJI

SEP 15, 2018

ARTICLE HISTORY PRINT SHARE

PARIS – French authorities have added to former IAAF president Lamine Diack’s legal problems by charging him with favoring his son in negotiations over sponsorship and TV rights, sources close to the case told AFP on Friday.

Diack was head of the governing body of global athletics from 1999 until his arrest in France in 2015.

He was charged at the time with taking millions of dollars to cover up failed Russian doping tests along with two other IAAF officials."

"PMD has been on Interpol’s most wanted list since December 2015 but is sheltering in Dakar as the Senegalese government refuses to extradite him to France.

At the court appearance in June, van Ruymbeke made an inventory of PMD’s invoices to the IAAF, some of which were sent directly to Lamine Diack. In 2012, the total was $501,206 (€429,000 at the time). In 2014, it was $825,955.

“Why did you agree to give your son so many advantages?” van Ruymbeke asked.

After the collapse of ISL, the Swiss sports rights broker that went bust in 2001, the IAAF sold its commercial rights to Dentsu."

His son, Papa Massata Diack's case:

"The son of the former head of track and field’s world governing body, Diack is at the center of an ever-widening corruption inquiry that reaches across four continents. Prosecutors say he has spent years behind the scenes, greasing hands in the shadowy intersection of sports, politics and business. They claim he was involved in a scheme to cover up failed doping tests and was the conduit for vote-buying in competitions to host major sporting events, including the Olympics.

Millions of dollars in illicit payments have been transferred through accounts controlled by Diack or his associates, according to prosecutors in Brazil and France, which in January 2016 issued an international arrest warrant for him.

His father, Lamine Diack, one of the most powerful men in sports during his 16-year reign as the head of the International Association of Athletics Federations, known as I.A.A.F., has been detained in France since November 2015 over allegations that he accepted bribes for covering up doping violations for Russian athletes.

Most recently, connections to the Diacks led to the arrest of Carlos Arthur Nuzman, the head of Brazil’s Olympic committee, amid suspicions that Rio de Janeiro’s successful bid to stage the 2016 Summer Games was helped by a $2 million payment to the younger Diack, acting as an intermediary for his father, who could be relied upon to secure the votes of the other African members of the International Olympic Committee."

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/16/sports/olympics/papa-massata-diack-iaaf.html

Correction Sir

Geb ran 12:59 and Kenenisa ran 12:57. I didnt like it but he jusr sat on Geb and blew by him when he eas ready, no doubt Kenenisa could have approached sub 12:50 had he pushed himself the entire last 5000m on that day!

VIPAM wrote:

Correction Sir

Geb ran 12:59 and Kenenisa ran 12:57. I didnt like it but he just sat on Geb and blew by him when he was ready, no doubt Kenenisa could have approached sub 12:50 had he pushed himself the entire last 5000m on that day!

...

One of the best 10000m ever.

This is pretty simple. Kipchoge is the best at the marathon. KB is the best on the track and at XC. KB's high heel kick gives him a slight advantage on the track because he can really turn up his leg turnover and move very efficiently at high speeds. Kipchoge's kick is lower and more smooth. This allows him to conserve energy better which makes him unstoppable at 26.2. It also limited his ability to match KB's unbelievable closing speed on the track and his power on XC courses. So, it is a bit like comparing an Indy car with a F1 car. They are both amazing machines but are built to do different things. An F1 car on an Indy track would lose to the Indy car every time. Same thing in reverse.

approaching it in 2016 wrote:

qar1 wrote:

So tell us, when was Kipchoge in his prime?

Last weekend.

^yes

The 2003 World final in the 5000m was interesting because Bekele took it out hard in 5:07 2k, only a second off the tempo in his world record, but then let off a bit and had arranged in advance to have Kipchoge take it at 3k, and he then signalled later to have Bekele take the lead back. They both already had the same agent in Jos Hermens, and that was enough to actually have an Ethiopian and a Kenyan working together in a championship final. El G took the pace at 800m to go, but that was only 60 and then a close in about 53 was not enough to hold off Kipchoge (winner by .04). So, Bekele may have been burned off a bit here by leading the race for 3k+, but the next year at Athens showed he couldn't beat El G in a race that was much slower than this one (won in 12:52).

F1 cars are simply faster than Indy cars for the reasons mentioned in this article:

"F1 cars are designed, engineered and built with the sole purpose of minimizing lap-times on non-oval, curvy, multiple chicane tracks or street circuits. This means, F1 cars need to be ferociously quick around all kind of track chicanes and turns as well as have a very competitive and high straight-line speed.

Indy Cars are built with a similar motivation, however, by smaller companies, mostly local to North America. This means, companies/teams competing in Indy Car, have smaller spending budgets in the development of the car, lesser access to research funding as compared to teams developing cars from the drawing board and competing in F1. In contrast, F1 teams are composed of global automobile giants, such as Ferrari, Mercedes, McLaren and Renault, among others.

The yearly budget of a top F1 team, such as Ferrari is typically ~ $470 million, as against a top Indy Car team, which has a yearly budget of ~ $15 million. That’s a multiplier of ~31.33. The cost of an F1 car itself is ~ $125 million as against a top Indy Car which costs ~ $3 million.

With the kind of year-round research development and year-round cash-flows of F1 teams, the cars of even lower stacked teams in F1 would probably out-perform and convincingly dominate the best Indy Car in terms of both, lap-time and sheer straight-line speed (assuming a non-oval circuit).

This figure should keep all comparative arguments/discussions between F1 and any other competitive motor sport to rest.

In terms of sheer speed, the top speed recorded in an F1 car is ~ 378 km/hr, set in 2016, while the top speed recorded in an Indy Car, on a non-oval circuit ,is ~ 310 km/hr."

How many times did Hicham face Kenenisa on the Gp circuit (non-championship) meet? If they had competed more often everyone knows Kenenisa would have started neutralizing Hichams speed by simply running away from Hicham. Unfortunately one retired and the other became complicient and injuried alot.

Hey dork. So Kipchoge blows away the WR in the Marathon, and now more posts than ever. I bother not reading. Just responding to all these dorks who probably have too much time on their hands or downright ugly ass girlfriends

You guys, it's easy.

Bekele = 5/10,000 track GOAT

Bekele = XC GOAT

Tadese = half marathon goat

Kipchoge = marathon GOAT = ACTUAL TRUE GOAT

There will always be debates about whether everyone even raced the XC 5,000 or 10,000 on the track in their prime, or ran XC in their prime (or at all).

THE event where the MONEY is, THE ONLY EVENT that the world cares about (aside from a TINY subculture who even know when World XC is on), is the MARATHON.

Guaranteed every runner in the conversation for GOAT has taken a good hard swing at the 'thon. Tergat did. Geb did. Tadese did. Farah did. Rupp did. Bekele did. And KIPCHOGE did, doing better than any of all those track/XC/turkeytrot SIDESHOW SPECIALISTS could sniff.

KIPCHOGE IS THE GOAT OF ALL GOATS.

let me explain for the kids wrote:

Guaranteed every runner in the conversation for GOAT has taken a good hard swing at the 'thon. Tergat did. Geb did. Tadese did. Farah did. Rupp did. Bekele did. And KIPCHOGE did, doing better than any of all those track/XC/turkeytrot SIDESHOW SPECIALISTS could sniff.

1) Bekele arguably didn't try the marathon at his prime. He still came within a few seconds of the WR. Had Bekele tried the marathon a few years earlier, it's very likely that he would have broken it.

2) Every long jumper has had a go at the hundred metres. It doesn't mean we rank jumpers by their sprint times.

3) What does Rupp have to do with this conversation?

Greatest male distance runners of the modern era (5000m and above) - 1990 onward (because I don't have time or energy to think about comparing massively different eras and these guys would be the best anyways)

1. Bekele: The greatest 5000m/10000m and XC runner ever (by a huge margin) and we bag him for his marathon record but he still has won Berlin and run 2.03.03. It's not even worth debating and/or backing up with more stats. Bekele is the greatest and anyone that tries to debate otherwise is deluded.

2. Geb: The second best 5000m/10000m runner ever, a bunch of top 5 World XC finishes and broke the Marathon WR twice including being the first man to break 2.04. His resume of winning races and longevity at the pinnacle sport is rivaled only by the man at number 1 on this list.

3. Mo: Whether you like it or not he's an overall greater distance runner than Kipchoge. The 5/10 double at the Olympics (including falling in the 2016 final then still winning a-la Viren) is so hard that Geb only attempted it once and failed and Bekele only did it twice. Farah did it 4 times and was only stopped for doing it 6 times by outlier performances from random Ethiopians with once in a lifetime efforts. He's never going to be a marathon great but has still run 2.06.22 that was almost at the WR of Da Costa (2.06.05) set only 20 years ago. He just looks like an average marathon runner because he is in the era of the greatest marathon running ever.

4. Kipchoge: He is the greatest marathon runner now by some margin and easy to forget he beat El G and Bekele to win a world 5000m title once upon a time but other than that his track career (given that he ran 12.46 and now his this incredible marathon career behind him) is a little underwhelming. Strange to think he "only" ran 26.49 (slower than Rupp) over 10000m and never raced one at a major meet. Ever. No world XC performances to show for (even Mo ran a bunch and once finished 11th)

5. Paul Tergat: Sorry American distance fans it's not Rupp, or Ritz or Solinsky that rounds out the top 5 it's Tergat. Forgotten amongst the behemoths above is the guy who won 5 consecutive world XC titles when it truly was the toughest race on earth (no 4km short course BS), has 2 world and Olympic silvers over 10000m (including pushing #2 to the absolute of his limit in Sydney). Ran under 12.50, held the WR in the 10000 and the Marathon (first man under 2.05)

easy huh?

I agree with all of this, except I want to note that I think 2:01:39 is the best singular performance of all 5 of these men. I know that not everyone will agree with me, but taking 78 seconds of the marathon world record when it was already 2:02:57 is absolutely insane. Kipchoge is also one of the very few to have a championships gold medal in both the 5k and the marathon.

I'd probably go:

1. Bekele

2. Geb

3. Kipchoge

4. Mo

5. Tergat

Are we not including mid distance runners? El G and Lagat should be close to making that list if so.

running commenter wrote:

1. Bekele

2. Geb

3. Kipchoge

4. Mo

5. Tergat

I agree with this list. The top 3 I think are pretty interchangeable in that there's a case for each to be number 1. However, I think Mo and Tergat are a step down in their greatness. Next would be maybe Komen? 12:39 and 7:20 are legendary marks. Someone else to consider for the top 5 is kemboi, the most dominant steeplechaser of this era. If you want to include Mo for the number of medals he's won, you have to consider Kemboi as well.

sounds good man wrote:

running commenter wrote:

1. Bekele

2. Geb

3. Kipchoge

4. Mo

5. Tergat

I agree with this list. The top 3 I think are pretty interchangeable in that there's a case for each to be number 1. However, I think Mo and Tergat are a step down in their greatness. Next would be maybe Komen? 12:39 and 7:20 are legendary marks. Someone else to consider for the top 5 is kemboi, the most dominant steeplechaser of this era. If you want to include Mo for the number of medals he's won, you have to consider Kemboi as well.

Great point about Komen and Kemboi. Not sure where I'd place them, but you'd have to think Komen would make the top 7. I might even place him above Tergat, he's lacking in hardware though.