Jack Daniels 2Q is insane

Toughen up bro.. you aren't going to get very far in life with that soft mentality.

Smoove, don't listen to the classic LRC trollers, sort of surprised you even responded. Most (smart) people on this board appreciate what you output, even if they disagree with a Daniels style approach.

Ended up running the full 17 miles and did it like this:

https://i.imgur.com/mOM8tHm.png

4E, 3x2T, ~2.5E, 1T, 3E

I added that last T because I was feeling a little fresh after the 2.5E.

My easy miles were slow, I know that, that's just how I run I wanted to keep my heart rate under 145 and that's what I had to do to do that. Some of the splits are slow because I did 2 minutes of jogging between each 2xT so part of my mile of T got pushed between 2 miles on strava.

Feeling pretty good now. Last 3 miles easy were pretty tough, but I am feeling good and not injured :D

Thanks for advice guys.

paint the rainbow wrote:

Follow the plan wrote:

What works with most Daniels plans is to assume they were written for people in very good shape, capable of running close to 5 min/mile T pace (or even M pace). Follow the plan but replace miles with duration, e.g. for the 4x2 mile T run do 2x10 minutes T at whatever your T pace is.

Wrong. Most people over estimate their fitness and assume the plans were written for people in good shape. In reality they are written for people who actually know their shape, which is few of you autists.

1/10

It's funny because I know a lot of guys who do this kind of training...except for the mile.

You'll be fine. Just pay attention to your body. If you feel injured, ease off. If you feel like crap, okay. Cool.

Lulz wrote:

It's funny because I know a lot of guys who do this kind of training...except for the mile.

You'll be fine. Just pay attention to your body. If you feel injured, ease off. If you feel like crap, okay. Cool.

The training has been tough up to this point, hardest I've ever trained, but it wasn't until this week that I felt like I was about to injure myself.

I think this was a mistype in the book. There was another mistype earlier that I found, don't have the book in front of me now, but it asked for x amount of miles, but after you added up all the workouts you ended up running more than what was asked. The final 2E turned into 0.5E

they should fix that.

my legs are tired :( wrote:

Lulz wrote:

It's funny because I know a lot of guys who do this kind of training...except for the mile.

You'll be fine. Just pay attention to your body. If you feel injured, ease off. If you feel like crap, okay. Cool.

The training has been tough up to this point, hardest I've ever trained, but it wasn't until this week that I felt like I was about to injure myself.

I think this was a mistype in the book. There was another mistype earlier that I found, don't have the book in front of me now, but it asked for x amount of miles, but after you added up all the workouts you ended up running more than what was asked. The final 2E turned into 0.5E

they should fix that.

I'm 12 weeks into a 16 week Plan A, and I can state that I am tired. I've cut-back on a few sessions (6 rather than 8 tempo efforts or 40mins rather than 60mins between workout bouts etc.) as my HR is slightly elevated. Ten more days and then a 2 week taper. I can't wait!

I cocnur...mate wrote:

my legs are tired :( wrote:

The training has been tough up to this point, hardest I've ever trained, but it wasn't until this week that I felt like I was about to injure myself.

I think this was a mistype in the book. There was another mistype earlier that I found, don't have the book in front of me now, but it asked for x amount of miles, but after you added up all the workouts you ended up running more than what was asked. The final 2E turned into 0.5E

they should fix that.

I'm 12 weeks into a 16 week Plan A, and I can state that I am tired. I've cut-back on a few sessions (6 rather than 8 tempo efforts or 40mins rather than 60mins between workout bouts etc.) as my HR is slightly elevated. Ten more days and then a 2 week taper. I can't wait!

Are you worried about the taper? Seems like a lot more workouts/miles than I've done in the past. Like it's easy to do but I want to me super fresh for the race.

I don't think it is a typo. You are comparing a single workout as being harder out of 36. Look at how many times the 71-85 mile schedule throws T miles in the middle of M pace runs where the 56-70 schedule has an E mile. I've only hit the times for those kind of workouts twice. I'll take an extra 2x1 over those any time, but I've always done better with intervals than longer continuous efforts.

I will say have never paid much attention to the suggested weekly volume for 2 reasons. First, it is listed with the longer run first and I track with the week starting on Monday, so it just doesn't line up right. Second, the schedule doesn't accommodate for any races. I will take my down weeks when I race and heavier weeks when I don't. I also try to swap the workouts around so they match up better to the race I'm running (I swapped 2E+3x(2T+2e)+8E for 10K race with an hour cool down).

my legs are tired :( wrote:

Ended up running the full 17 miles and did it like this:

https://i.imgur.com/mOM8tHm.png

4E, 3x2T, ~2.5E, 1T, 3E

I added that last T because I was feeling a little fresh after the 2.5E.

My easy miles were slow, I know that, that's just how I run I wanted to keep my heart rate under 145 and that's what I had to do to do that. Some of the splits are slow because I did 2 minutes of jogging between each 2xT so part of my mile of T got pushed between 2 miles on strava.

Feeling pretty good now. Last 3 miles easy were pretty tough, but I am feeling good and not injured :D

Thanks for advice guys.

It seems like you are on the faster end, if not faster, of what would be considered T pace for you, given what you've shared. Also the slow pace of the E miles during this session also suggest you may be running faster than T pace. You might want to consider the pace guidelines from the calculators as the absolute fastest you should run T pace, M pace, etc., and shoot to be at that or slower. All signs point to over training. You lose all your extra credit points and then some if you spend too much time in the red zone. Be careful.

my legs are tired :( wrote:

I cocnur...mate wrote:

I'm 12 weeks into a 16 week Plan A, and I can state that I am tired. I've cut-back on a few sessions (6 rather than 8 tempo efforts or 40mins rather than 60mins between workout bouts etc.) as my HR is slightly elevated. Ten more days and then a 2 week taper. I can't wait!

Are you worried about the taper? Seems like a lot more workouts/miles than I've done in the past. Like it's easy to do but I want to me super fresh for the race.

Not worried about it at all. Looking forward to feeling fresher!

His taper is absolutely perfect in terms of workouts. You do your last "hard" workout about 10 days out, which is enough time to recover in time. Plus, it's not overly difficult (1T + 2M + 1T + 2M) and by that point in the taper, you will start feeling a lot better. Do not cut down or change anything he says in the taper. If anything, you could probably advocate that you could do something harder than he says 10 days out.

The only thing I do change is the mileage, and this echoes what somebody else said about his plan. I wouldn't keep my mileage at 80% of my peak just 1 week out from the race, which is what he recommends.

Instead, if I was peaking at 70 for the 55-70 plan, my last few weeks might be 70, 55-60, 45-50, and then 25 the week of the race.

Easy Peasy wrote:

His taper is absolutely perfect in terms of workouts. You do your last "hard" workout about 10 days out, which is enough time to recover in time. Plus, it's not overly difficult (1T + 2M + 1T + 2M) and by that point in the taper, you will start feeling a lot better. Do not cut down or change anything he says in the taper. If anything, you could probably advocate that you could do something harder than he says 10 days out.

The only thing I do change is the mileage, and this echoes what somebody else said about his plan. I wouldn't keep my mileage at 80% of my peak just 1 week out from the race, which is what he recommends.

Instead, if I was peaking at 70 for the 55-70 plan, my last few weeks might be 70, 55-60, 45-50, and then 25 the week of the race.

I’m similar, peak of 60ish. So; 42, 36, 24 the final 3 weeks.

Well the vdot calculator and it said I should be running 06:28. I do push it though because it's so hilly where I live and I still want to get around 6:25 so maybe I should be going a bit slower. It was a little humid and I'm beat up from the last work out. On a cool day, which we had like 2 of in the past 3 months, my E pace is closer to 8 min on a flat section.

Well the vdot calculator and it said I should be running 06:28. I do push it though because it's so hilly where I live and I still want to get around 6:25 so maybe I should be going a bit slower. It was a little humid and I'm beat up from the last work out. On a cool day, which we had like 2 of in the past 3 months, my E pace is closer to 8 min on a flat section.

That said I definitely felt more like I was recovery running and not easy running.

VDOT has me at 06:10. So I started at 6:25 for 6 weeks, 6 weeks at 6:20 and this final six weeks at 6:15. This final 6 weeks I’ve felt at times like I’m not far off anaerobic, and my HR agrees. The thing with VDOT is that is based off a race effort - when you’re rested, tapered, beetroot heavy (it works!) and have the adrenaline of race day too quicken you. So, I always air of the side of caution. Pete Magness writes a lot about ensuring you train UNDER tempo pace otherwise you’re undoing all that hard work...

*Steve Magness.

Yo yo yo wrote:

VDOT has me at 06:10. So I started at 6:25 for 6 weeks, 6 weeks at 6:20 and this final six weeks at 6:15. This final 6 weeks I’ve felt at times like I’m not far off anaerobic, and my HR agrees. The thing with VDOT is that is based off a race effort - when you’re rested, tapered, beetroot heavy (it works!) and have the adrenaline of race day too quicken you. So, I always air of the side of caution. Pete Magness writes a lot about ensuring you train UNDER tempo pace otherwise you’re undoing all that hard work...

I never understood Daniels' approach of arbitrarily picking up VDOT every 6 weeks. Your VDOT should be based on your current fitness, not the calendar. Some times your VDOT might pick up 4 or 5 over that 18 weeks because you weren't fully trained. Other times, it'll pick up zero because you're near your physical peak at the start.

Maybe it’s because (as pointed out) VDOT is based off a race effort.