Are Genetics important for Elite runners?

Probably the same pack.

Genetics will determine size of engine but also ability to handle training, responder vs non responder, tendency to get injured etc etc...

XY wrote:

Bro scientist wrote:

Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work.

This is nonsensical

"Hard work beats talent when talent fails to work hard.”- Kevin Durant

My school years, and my kids' school years all had the same phenomenon. There was a boy, and girl, who in about the fourth grade was a huge distance running talent. They'd post times that were competitive on the high school level by the sixth grade, and the local newspapers would have stories about their Olympic aspirations.

By the time high school rolled around, the kids you never would have imagined to be runners were running 18s in XC. Some of these kids who worked all four years would run in the 16s by their junior or senior years. The faster freshmen might get into the 15s by the time they were seniors.

The fast girl from the sixth grade was nowhere to be seen. She'd quit by the 8th grade. The fast boy had dropped out of school and was working at the transmission repair shop. He'd topped out at 5-4, but at least he was shaving in the fifth grade.

Genetics are extremely important, but equally important is culture.

Inquiring minds want to know wrote:

reasonable assessment wrote:

Your second point should be = sub elite or elite but not top level.

What exactly is sub-elite? I asked a hotshot elite this one time and his response was that a sub-elite was a glorified hobby jogger. ?

Sub Elite would be better than mediocre. The guys who can't quite get into the bigger races or fill the also ran positions when they do.

I guess an actual elite not delivering their best may call it mediocre relative to their ability though.

Coaching is also another factor. Having the right genetics AND having excellent coaching gets you to the top.

So many kids have the talent but their coach is sub par. They end up competing in the wrong event, over worked, injured.

There are plenty of 50 second high school 400m specialists but how many ever give the 800, 1600, 3200, xc a serious chance? Those are the kids with world class speed for a distance runner but they are just fast enough to have high school success at the short stuff.

Ryan Hall ran 1:50 and 3:43 in high school and ended up becoming the top US marathoner.

Here's the exact quote wrote:

XY wrote:

This is nonsensical

"Hard work beats talent when talent fails to work hard.”- Kevin Durant

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/699064-hard-work-beats-talent-when-talent-fails-to-work-hard

The limiting factor remains talent

iiiiiiiiiiiiiii wrote:

Coaching is also another factor. Having the right genetics AND having excellent coaching gets you to the top.

So many kids have the talent but their coach is sub par. They end up competing in the wrong event, over worked, injured.

There are plenty of 50 second high school 400m specialists but how many ever give the 800, 1600, 3200, xc a serious chance? Those are the kids with world class speed for a distance runner but they are just fast enough to have high school success at the short stuff.

Ryan Hall ran 1:50 and 3:43 in high school and ended up becoming the top US marathoner.

What? Ryan Hall? Talk about superb genetics! He set the California HS State 1600 meet record at 4:02!

How many HS kids every year come anywhere near a 4:02 1600? How many HS kids come close to a 1:50?

There are so many kids that bust their ass training like a madman throughout HS and can't break 2 flat or 4:35. And 2 flat & 4:35 will just get you a fart and a mitten - college coaches laugh at those times.

Genetics isn't everything...it's the only thing.

It's a simple case of the "haves" and the "have nots."

XY wrote:

Here's the exact quote wrote:

"Hard work beats talent when talent fails to work hard.”- Kevin Durant

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/699064-hard-work-beats-talent-when-talent-fails-to-work-hard

The limiting factor remains talent

What's that old saying? For those that don't have the talent there's always barber school. ?

Most of you should have picked better parents . Me included.

2:18 wrote:

Most of you should have picked better parents . Me included.

That's such a stupid statement that a lot of people, including some coaches, float out there all the time. Like we really had a choice in the matter. My parents were a couple of short, stocky tanks - what was I suppose to do? Not allow them to conceive me before I ever existed? ?

Genetics is everything. BUT without development one may waste their time competing in the wrong events.

Hall could have focused on the 800 in high school, 1:50 is an excellent time for a high schooler. Then he could have gone to UC Riverside, skipped cross country as many 800m specialists do and finished up college with a 1:48 pr and no national titles or Olympic appearances.

BUT Hall had excellent high school coaching in addition to his excellent genetics. Hall went to Stanford with more excellent coaching and was a 3:42 1500 guy, then he finished 2nd in XC behind Ritz and moved up to 5000m becoming 13:22 NCAA champ. Then became an Olympian and AR at the marathon.

C'mon now...If he didn't have incredible genetics all that "excellent high school coaching" isn't jacksh*t. He set the freaking CA HS State 1600 meet record at 4:02.62! Please tell me how many HS kids run a 4:02 or faster 1600 every year?

A HS kid can have all the desire, determination, enthusiasm, motivation as well as "excellent coaching," but without superb genetics they're not going onto Div-1 level & elite status.

Genetics isn't everything...it's the only thing.

It's always the simple case of the "haves" and the "have nots." ?

No. As long as you can eat others, you can ingest their genetics for your advantage. Eat or be eaten, bruh.

https://media.giphy.com/media/84CRvhy2DJlwA/giphy.gif

Inquiring minds want to know wrote:

reasonable assessment wrote:

Your second point should be = sub elite or elite but not top level.

What exactly is sub-elite? I asked a hotshot elite this one time and his response was that a sub-elite was a glorified hobby jogger. ?

Was this elite actually an elite? Who was it?

In 1961 my high school cross country coach told me that there were a few factors that would determine how fast you would run. One was how much natural ability you had; Another was your work ethic; and another was how much you could bring out of yourself in a race. Of course we now know that some adapt to training better than others. And diet, something that no coach in the old days ever spoke to be about. But to be fair some might have and I was just not listening. Fortunately my mother put out the right food every day. However, in college I'm amazed to how I could run at all on eating greasy eggs for breakfast, cold cut sandwiches for lunch, and often cheeseburgers and fries for my main meal. Also, as a coach, I have observed from working with high school athletes that some are runners while others are racers. Runners love running and can't wait to train, but often have trouble getting out the training in a race. Racers sometimes hate training when at it often don't run hard enough. But put them in a race and they go. The ideal, of course, is to get a runner and a racer in the right body.

Not My Choice wrote:

2:18 wrote:

Most of you should have picked better parents . Me included.

That's such a stupid statement that a lot of people, including some coaches, float out there all the time. Like we really had a choice in the matter. My parents were a couple of short, stocky tanks - what was I suppose to do? Not allow them to conceive me before I ever existed? ?

It's a tongue in cheek reference not meant to be taken at face value.

Equation man wrote:

Good genetics + lots of hard work = elite

Good genetics + little work = mediocre

Average genetics + lots of hard work = mediocre

Average genetics + little work = below average

Bad genetics + lots of hard work = below average

Bad genetics + little work = can't run

You neglected:

Hard work + Alien genetics = Ingebrigtsen & Barega! ?

Even the most genetically gifted youngster will have to put in a lot of time and effort to become world-class. So this is required as well.