1:47.67 HSer Josh Hoey turns pro - Thoughts?

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  • ThonTraining
    1 year ago 08/30/2018 12:04pm CDT
    re: Skolly
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    Skolly wrote:

    asdadfsdfsdf wrote:

    risk management wrote:

    This is risk management for both parties.

    From the perspective of Adidas: If Hoey were to go to college and have a great career, Adidas wouldn’t have a shot at signing him. They figure it’s better to sign him now and have him locked in than to wait and see what happens and risk losing him.

    From Hoey’s perspective: There is a chance that Hoey goes to college and fails to improve or gets injured. In that case, his market value goes to zero. Better to make the money now while it’s a sure thing than to gamble on what will happen over the next four years.


    Except that he could go to college somewhere for free and be all set afterwards to get a job, where now, if he fails, he may not have even made enough profit to cover the cost of a full college education.


    Except no one gets full scholarships anymore. Can anyone confirm what programs give full scholarships? Oregon doesn’t.


    You can get full scholarships at a lot of Universities...might not be Oregon, but could be other places. I ran D1 in school and know others at multiple schools that got full rides...
  • SirReggie
    1 year ago 08/30/2018 12:20pm CDT
    re: Star
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    Star wrote:

    I think this could be a pretty good thing.
    We don't know all of the details.

    For one, I think San Diego would be a good area for year round training.
    Nice weather all of the time.
    No problem finding hills.

    He has a good coach and agent.

    The college thing is unknown but if Adidas picks up his education costs, it would be smart to at least go to school part time.
    It's also nice to not deal with dumb NCAA rules.

    It looks like he is a miler in the making. He may have potential to make the 2020 Olympic team in the 1500m if his talent is raw and he responds well to training. But 2024 would be his prime.

    Colleges are cutting programs and reducing track scholarships all over the country.
    This may be the future to save the sport in the US.


    +1
    Worked out for Mary Cain.
  • sbeefyk2
    registered
    1 year ago 08/30/2018 12:34pm CDT
    re: tn track fan
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    tn track fan wrote:

    Wish him the best, but obviously huge leap from high school to pro. Must of got a nice contract.


    Not necessarily a big contract. Could be a tiny base salary (say, $25k a year plus unlimited gear as this is about equal to a college scholarship) with hundreds of thousands to millions in contingent money based on times and places at certain races.
  • 3ringcircus
    1 year ago 08/30/2018 12:40pm CDT
    re: Fred Gwynne
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    I believe part of the agreement for the 80k is for the older brother, Jaxon, who bounced around from PSU and Oregon to join him in the training group. I do not think he is receiving a salary, probably just gear, to essentially be Josh's training partner.
  • Hosh Joey
    1 year ago 08/30/2018 12:45pm CDT
    re: ThonTraining
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    I don't understand how anybody could possibly think this is a bad decision.

    1)Just for pure success in the sport, I would argue he is more likely to have success continuing to do what he has already done, working with the same coach, living in the same area, doing whatever he feels comfortable with. That is going to be a much better training environment than trying to juggle moving to a new city, with new teammates, in an unfamiliar training system, while also having to go to school full time. If he wants a shot at being great, why not take it now and see what happens? Better now than 4/5 years from now.

    2) Financially, there's no way he's not better off with this route. There's no way he's getting a full ride as just an 800 guy. Everyone is talking about how the NCAA gives you time to develop; there's also a chance that he doesn't improve and is a mediocre guy at the college level. He then has no chance to go pro, and will not have worked his way to a full scholarship on a team like Oregon. He will then have spent a good deal of money to be in college and have missed out on a pro deal. If he fails to improve now, he at least has whatever was agreed to in his current contract.
  • aging
    1 year ago 08/30/2018 12:46pm CDT
    re: sbeefyk2
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    Good for him. Follow your dreams.

    Not everyone needs to go to college and/or run for the NCAA.

    Keep a positive attitude, don't get discourage, work hard daily. Live a purpose driven life. I think this kid is.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-hV25y-yQc
  • Not full
    1 year ago 08/30/2018 12:56pm CDT
    re: ThonTraining
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    No. You won't provide your name and won't be able to provide any other names. Why is everyone so scared to provide their name as a full-ride runner? We know every basketball and football player. I would love to put my name out there if I had been a full-ride guy but I was only a 4:15 walk-on so it is embarrassing.

    Hasty was only getting a stipend from Oregon which is probably the same thing that Hoey was getting.
  • San Diego expert
    1 year ago 08/30/2018 1:13pm CDT
    re: Holy Communication Batman!
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    Holy Communication Batman! wrote:

    This is all I want to know: Since it was a "God given opportunity," how did God get the word to Adidas, the Mission Athletics Club and Terrence Mahon that they had a Divine Mandate to participate in Hoey's professional career? Were there stone tablets involved? Angels at the foot of someone's bed? Instructions revealed on a burnt piece of toast? Inquiring minds want to know!


    I'm pretty sure that if it occurred in San Diego then Terrence Mahon opened up a breakfast burrito to add more salsa and saw "put Hoey in the club" written in guacamole inside the burrito.
  • dirtbag runner
    1 year ago 08/30/2018 1:14pm CDT
    re: Scottykrutz
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    Poor choice. Running doesn't pay. An education is worth a lot more than his short lived pro contract. Unlike a football player turning pro early, when it's all over, he'll need a real job to make a living.
  • Time.will.tell
    1 year ago 08/30/2018 1:46pm CDT
    re: Aseer
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    Lots of good points here, but only time will tell. Having an agent and a shoe contract should allow Josh to focus on running fast and getting to Tokyo in 2020. Are his chances better this way or the college way? Your guess is as good as mine. Lots of talk about D1 burn-outs, but I'd call that getting a real job because not many can earn a living by running, especially after you graduate. It's like the baseball draft where the HS kid gets a bigger signing bonus than the college graduate. You've got to incent them to not go to school. 3:55 miler Charlie Marquardt doesn't have a shoe deal, and would probably give his right arm for one. My guess is that Josh did the right thing by grabbing the brass ring now. It might not be there next time around.
  • Wise master.
    1 year ago 08/30/2018 2:03pm CDT
    re: Scottykrutz
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    I would not let my kid go pro straight outta HS. Why not run fast in college, get an education and then consider a career in athletics? 1:47 is very good, but not the Sydney McLaughlin type phenomenal Olympic level talent to forgo college. The track is littered with the carcasses of HS phenoms. Beware!

    But, this is America, the land of your dreams. Good luck to the young man!
  • Oyster Crackers
    1 year ago 08/30/2018 2:07pm CDT
    re: Scottykrutz
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    Yeah. It's a minor mistake but he's young. College will still be there. If he had enlisted in the military people would say that he could go to college afterwards and have the Army pay for it. This is a gap year - that pays.
  • ex-runner
    registered
    1 year ago 08/30/2018 2:10pm CDT
    re: Predictor
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    Predictor wrote:

    I was initially skeptical of the decision. But giving up a $25K scholarship which still would have cost the family another $25k per year, for an $80k salary makes good financial sense. I know very little about him or his family so I am assuming that they did some soul searching and the decision had more to do with non-financials which actually made it a win-win.


    Where are you getting these numbers from?
  • Muddler
    1 year ago 08/30/2018 3:03pm CDT
    re: rojo
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    For the price, college is way overrated and the majority should not be there. This is from someone with a masters degree in a real subject. Anyway, even if he was offered a full scholarship, there are a lot of ancillary costs such as over inflated room and board, books etc. Then he would most likely have to deal with a burn out coach who will threaten to pull the scholarship at the first sign of injury or weakness.

    Did you really need a degree to run this website? I sure hope not. It seems that this kid made a good choice for him and he can still go to college if he wants to on his own terms. No one is stopping him .... (except perhaps for the astronomical costs).
  • TrackCoach
    registered
    1 year ago 08/30/2018 3:24pm CDT
    re: rojo
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    As Rojo pointed out, " I don't think college makes sense for everyone from an academic standpoint." My younger brother and a friend never submitted a college application and have never taken a college course and earn more than most people with an advanced degree. There are quite a few well-paying careers that don't require a college degree. With that said, neither one of these individuals received a D1 college scholarship. Hoey could have valid reasons for turning pro, but if it is about maximizing his potential as a runner, the decision doesn't make sense. My main concern is in track there is no minor league, you are expected to represent your sponsor and compete against the big boys right away. To fill a lane at pro meet, you need to be at a minimum a sub-1:46/sub-4 type. Where is he going to compete?
  • ex-runner
    registered
    1 year ago 08/30/2018 3:30pm CDT
    re: Muddler
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    Muddler wrote:

    For the price, college is way overrated and the majority should not be there. This is from someone with a masters degree in a real subject. Anyway, even if he was offered a full scholarship, there are a lot of ancillary costs such as over inflated room and board, books etc. Then he would most likely have to deal with a burn out coach who will threaten to pull the scholarship at the first sign of injury or weakness.

    Did you really need a degree to run this website? I sure hope not. It seems that this kid made a good choice for him and he can still go to college if he wants to on his own terms. No one is stopping him .... (except perhaps for the astronomical costs).


    In the modern world having a degree is pretty much required for a white collar job.

    Do you really think that a few years of a failed athletics career will be better than having a degree, for someone with no work experience to get a job?

    Need a backup plan in any avenue, especially one as risky as sport. Even Dinah Asher-Smith who is right up there on the world stage got herself a good education first and foremost. It's a piece of paper that many jobs won't consider you without.
  • aging
    1 year ago 08/30/2018 4:10pm CDT
    re: ex-runner
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    ex-runner wrote:

    In the modern world having a degree is pretty much required for a white collar job.

    Do you really think that a few years of a failed athletics career will be better than having a degree, for someone with no work experience to get a job?

    Need a backup plan in any avenue, especially one as risky as sport. Even Dinah Asher-Smith who is right up there on the world stage got herself a good education first and foremost. It's a piece of paper that many jobs won't consider you without.


    Degree means very little. Differentiable Skills gets you hired.
  • ex-runner
    registered
    1 year ago 08/30/2018 4:17pm CDT
    re: aging
    Forum Index
    aging wrote:

    ex-runner wrote:

    In the modern world having a degree is pretty much required for a white collar job.

    Do you really think that a few years of a failed athletics career will be better than having a degree, for someone with no work experience to get a job?

    Need a backup plan in any avenue, especially one as risky as sport. Even Dinah Asher-Smith who is right up there on the world stage got herself a good education first and foremost. It's a piece of paper that many jobs won't consider you without.


    Degree means very little. Differentiable Skills gets you hired.


    Degree gets you the interview. Especially when young and inexperienced.
  • PolatBearMobile
    1 year ago 08/30/2018 4:38pm CDT
    re: ex-runner
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    ex-runner wrote:

    polarbear wrote:

    rojo wrote:

    My thoughts?

    This is disgusting and what's wrong with modern society. Honestly, that's what I'm thinking now. Admittedly that's an uninformed view.

    When I first saw it, I was like, "Is this a joke?"

    A 1:47 guy goes pro. Why? Why wouldn't you want to go to college - it's the best 4 years of your life? Why would adidas want to sponsor a 1:47 guy?

    I've never believed that the NCAA is bad for athletes whether it's football, basketball or track. College gives you reasonable goals. Now this guy can get his head beat in until he runs 1:44 and is relevant.

    The only thing that makes me think this isn't the dumbest thing ever is he's got Terrence Mahon as a coach and Wetmore as an agent. I respect both of those guys. But the idea that the shoe companies need to pay people to go pro early pisses me off. I love college track. Let them be good there, develop a brand and then go pro.

    And I also think 800 guys can be some of the hardest to develop. Now he's decent at xc right (just looked it up 7th fastest at PA state xc meet) so he's probably not a pure speed guy which is good. Actually, I just did some more research and he ran a 4:11 mile as a sophomore. Won Millrose mile this year. Ok, I'm feeling better than I initially was. If a pure 800 1:47 guy went pro, I'd be going crazy. I still don't like it. I just dont' think the point of modern society should be to maximize earnings and don't think we should be having guys go pro for a WNBA salary.


    More power to him.

    It's this wierd american mind set that in certain sports (basketball, football, track and field) that the NCAA is the "natural" way of developing young athletes.

    And so tell me the proud alma maters of Bekele, Rudisha, Coe, Ovett, Bolt?

    European soccer and basketball players are on the professional track by early adolescence. There's no "one and done" debate in that system. For some reason NCAA folks have this entitled sense that athletes should be in their system before they go pro.


    Well Coe went to Loughborough which has a better Athletics pedigree than most American universities could wish for. He got a degree in economics or business.
    Rudisha went to school at St Patrick's with Brother Colm and was given an education whilst being coached by perhaps the best set up for developing distance athletes that exists on Earth. Leaving high school he had run 1:44 and was World u20 Champ.

    Bekele likely didn't get the opportunity to go to university. So many Africans would take that opportunity if given it.

    Bolt had already run 19.9 by time he was this kids age. World Junior champion and record holder. Totally different. He was good enough to win senior medals already.

    A 15 year old boy ran 1:47 in the UK this year. It's not a pro time.


    St Patrick’s is a secondary school.

    Coe was coached by his Dad in college.

    They didn’t go through the 3 season bonanza of the NCAA
  • Muddler
    1 year ago 08/30/2018 4:41pm CDT
    re: ex-runner
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    I said for most people. Sure, some will get their "white collar" jobs and they should be in college for that. They already know they will get a "white collar" job before attending one day of college. They are that good.

    But for the average student, most will not get a white collar job, and many will be saddled with 100K+ loans to be paid off with a lousy job. That's just a lousy raw deal for most.

    If most people graduate with a degree then it does not distinguish you in any way to have one. In fact, someone who went straight for a job will probably be managing college grads 5 years out.