New Haven 20k (USA National Circuit 20k Championships)

"There will be no coaches or athletes representatives permitted to give any aid out on the course. This includes water stations or first aid tents"

Loud and clear at technical meeting at 5:30pm at the Omni Hotel.

So now the only question is did they give towels and water bottles out to athletes during the race? If they did they cheated. Whether or not it was enforced does not change the fact that they cheated.

If the referee was on the lead vehicle and did not make the call he should not be invited back in that position.

That's not in the rulebook.

Doesn't need to be if it was presented to all athletes at a MANDATORY Technical Meeting.

They cheated. They are cheats.

Phantasy Star wrote:

Shamefully weak fields. B. Lagat, Rupp, or Ritz coulda rolled out of bed and CRUSHED this race.

Has Ritz beaten Korir ?

Ritz ran in this race before. Didn't win.

strykerd wrote:

That's not in the rulebook.

Yes it is and, it's a text book example of assistance given at all tech meetings and officials courses. You just can't make the rules up as you go along. Bottom line is there was no protest. Hopefully the coach learns from his mistake. It could have proven very costly.

Yep it sure is wrote:

strykerd wrote:

That's not in the rulebook.

Yes it is and, it's a text book example of assistance given at all tech meetings and officials courses. You just can't make the rules up as you go along. Bottom line is there was no protest. Hopefully the coach learns from his mistake. It could have proven very costly.

Please point out where.

Who was in the lead vehicle? Was it just a press truck or was someone from USATF on board? This is ridiculous.

Technical Meeting wrote:

"There will be no coaches or athletes representatives permitted to give any aid out on the course. This includes water stations or first aid tents"

Loud and clear at technical meeting at 5:30pm at the Omni Hotel.

So now the only question is did they give towels and water bottles out to athletes during the race? If they did they cheated. Whether or not it was enforced does not change the fact that they cheated.

If the referee was on the lead vehicle and did not make the call he should not be invited back in that position.

The referee was on the lead vehicle.

strykerd wrote:

Yep it sure is wrote:

Yes it is and, it's a text book example of assistance given at all tech meetings and officials courses. You just can't make the rules up as you go along. Bottom line is there was no protest. Hopefully the coach learns from his mistake. It could have proven very costly.

Please point out where.

I thought you were the one that linked to the rules? Didn't you read them first? Try Rule 241. The only way refreshments can be provided specifically for an athlete is thru the organizing committee. Said refreshments must be labelled and given to the organizing committee the night before the race. The OC shall then designate who can make those refreshments available. Go on to read where those drinks are located and who can set them out for the athlete. It must be an official designated by the championship. Certainly not a coach out on the course. it's really not that hard to understand. Having been at numerous tech meetings it is usually stated exactly that way. It was stated that way at New Haven. There were no official athlete aid stations as none were requested. As such, the athletes can avail themselves to the water and other drinks provided by the race. Hopefully, you, the athletes and the coach learn from this experience.

Technical Meeting wrote:

Doesn't need to be if it was presented to all athletes at a MANDATORY Technical Meeting.

They cheated. They are cheats.

I was at the technical meeting and nobody mentioned ANYTHING about course aid. Not a single word about it.

I, PERSONALLY, spoke to an organizer of the race right after that meeting and he said aid was allowed as long as it was near aid stations. I also asked why they don't do tables for elites and he said they used to, but not many would take their bottles, so it wasn't worth their effort.

Can I get a mod to do IP address checks? I already know the noise on this issue is being caused by the Hanson Brooks coaches/athletes. They were the ones all pissed off because they got their a$$es handed to them. After the race, I overheard the Hansons coach telling an official, "We're not going to file a protest, but you should know this happened." He was extremely pissy.

I was there. This is what I know/heard on the issue. But if a mod did an IP address check, I'd put money on the locations coming back from Michigan. The mods can also check my IP address and search the elite results to match my location. I was at the meeting and in the race.

Per Rule 144.4, The following shall not be considered assistance:

(d) Any kind of personal safeguard (i.e., bandage, tape, belt, support, wrist cooler, breathing aid, etc.) for medical purposes. The Referee shall have the authority to verify any case should that be desired.

(h) Hats, gloves, shoes and other items of clothing provided to competitors at official stations.

Either one could refer to a moist towel if the referee's interpretation is lenient enough. Rule 144 also mentions "sponges" which could be argued as a towel. Or it could just be a hot day and y'all are too concerned about your favorite athletes missing the top spots.

Rule 241 goes on and on about refreshments, which are perfectly LEGAL AT AID STATIONS. Additionally it looks the referee should have given warnings before DQs if he/she found there to be an issue.

No protests, no warnings = no DQs!

Wait. I was also there. An official said aid was ok as long as it was near the aid stations? I never heard that. I never heard anything like that in my life. The tech meeting did mention that the athletes were "responsible for knowing the contents of the technical rules in (this) pamphlet.." But, I never heard anyone say it was ok to give any aid as long as you are "near and aid station.." I don't believe that part at all.

I agree with this person

What aboot these? wrote:

Per Rule 144.4, The following shall not be considered assistance:

(d) Any kind of personal safeguard (i.e., bandage, tape, belt, support, wrist cooler, breathing aid, etc.) for medical purposes. The Referee shall have the authority to verify any case should that be desired.

(h) Hats, gloves, shoes and other items of clothing provided to competitors at official stations.

Either one could refer to a moist towel if the referee's interpretation is lenient enough. Rule 144 also mentions "sponges" which could be argued as a towel. Or it could just be a hot day and y'all are too concerned about your favorite athletes missing the top spots.

Rule 241 goes on and on about refreshments, which are perfectly LEGAL AT AID STATIONS. Additionally it looks the referee should have given warnings before DQs if he/she found there to be an issue.

No protests, no warnings = no DQs!

Thanks. I’ll take the rulebook over three athletes allegedly at a meeting who all have different stories.

How fast have you run 20K? After 3rd place not impressive? Can you run 30:30 for 10K? How about put two of them back to back faster than 30:30? That is what you are dissing. 1:01 for 20K is not impressive? Sayyyy whaaaaat?

This is over. Move on

I said that part was a personal conversation after the meeting, dumb a$$.

I don't believe you. Tell us who your conversation was with so that I can double check your story. Was it with John Tolbert or Bob Latham or Kim Keenan Kirkpatrick? There were no other officials in the room.

I'll double that. I call double BS. No official would say it's ok to get aid off of the official aid stations.