Kenyan 800m Word medallist Kipyegon Bett Suspended After Refusing Drugs Test

El Keniano wrote:

^Still almost zero positives from the US, UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Germany, France, Italy, Spain, the Netherlands, Belgium, Sweden, Norway, Switzerland and others ? ... Not suspicious at all.

Year round testing in those nations. ZERO year round testing in E. Africa. LOL Go back your cluttered Brooklyn walkup and come up with some other excuse. You hasbro-rats are amusing if nothing else.

Someday we'll actually have real Kenyans posting here.

RENATO THE EPO OVERLORD wrote:

EPO DOES NOT WORK ON EAST AFRICANS

Renato never said that, turd breath.

Deanouk wrote:

hahaha roflmao lol wrote:

Spot the racist imbecile!

Emmanuel Korir has just run 1:42.79 in your beloved UK.

haha

Considering he was talking about the WR going today, it was quite a disappointing performance for him. He looked easy at the end of his 1:42.05 a couple of weeks ago, but today he looked all out, head rolling and exhausted at he end of a slower race with a slower last 200m.

Of course he could have had an off day, but it certainly was a drop in his form.

Likewise Manangoi. For someone whose run 3:29 this year and claims he can run under 46 for 400m, he should be running 1:41’s not 1:44’s.

Korir is a terrific cheat. Anyone who runs 1:42 with the final 100m being their fastest 100m of the race is a bit suspect to say the least. The cheating by E. Africans is widespread because so many officials are in on the deal. It's going to take a long time to clean things up. And that doesn't guarantee we'll see Europeans and others embrace the sport and begin competing in decent numbers anytime soon. Three decades of fraud has done a lot of damage. But one of the intended goals, that of intimidating Europeans above all others, making them believe they can't compete in the sport, was achieved for the most part.

runn wrote:

So, you think Bett has an anxiety problem having to urinate in front of testers? How many other doping tests has he had? At the WCs last year where he won bronze, he would have had to pee in front of a tester, and he didn't refuse then.

Did I say that? I am so tired of idiots like you chiming in with your stupid 2 cents worth.

I said that MIGHT exist AND a WC medalist told me that SHE had a hard time producing for the testers.

Long before someone as naive as you were born there was an article in the Wall St Journal about it!!

I have no clue why he didn't produce a sample- maybe he would have failed and he didn't know it. Maybe he wasn't home, maybe he was dehydrated and just couldn't pee.

C'mon man...quit defending him! I'm sick & tired of you Kenyan doping defenders! Bett refused the test because he was glowing like a New England Lighthouse on a foggy night! When he gets his 4 yr ban I'm going to LMAO at you Kenyan doping defenders!

casual obsever wrote:

Oh rekrunner, such a short memory?

Here is the last time I recall where you trolled about there being no evidence for her doping in Boston. You did that for years, as google still knows.

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=8796415&page=40

After reading his posts on this, rekrunner is the master troller!

Not short, but clear memory. In fact, you just agreed with me when saying ""about there being no evidence for her doping in Boston". I said "no evidence" that the "IAAF claimed that she was already doping for Boston" This is a statement about what the IAAF claimed, and not about Jeptoo's clean or doping status in Boston. I did not say "Jeptoo was clean in Boston". I'm pretty sure I never said that.

casual obsever wrote:

Oh rekrunner, such a short memory?

Here is the last time I recall where you trolled about there being no evidence for her doping in Boston. You did that for years, as google still knows.

100% my opinion. I did no such thing. You are preaching to the choir.

Note that I talked about our NADOs, not the IAAF (which wouldn't be responsible for the cyclists).

Yes - we know mostly about Russians because of the Russian whistle blower, but it's hard to believe that Diack would only have blackmailed/protected Russian offenders.

The problem with the current IAAF is that most of its leaders are still there, and according to WADA, the IAAF council was aware of it. One should have rebuilt that literally from scratch.

As for Coe... you could watch Coe's attitude during his attack on Seppelt and Ashenden, for example. Or by his anti-transparency stance, and him publicly declaring Paula innocent before the investigation by his employees into her began. Or by him lobbying for Nike to his spiritual leader, and then lying about it.

Finally, noting that we had most likely more than 44% IAAF drug cheats earlier in this decade, as evidenced by the Tuebingen/Harvard study, these Kenyan cheats are obviously only the tip of the iceberg.

As for the scale by country, around 44% worldwide can't be explained by Kenyans, or East Africans, alone. The fancy bear list (which is also only the tip of the iceberg with its small number of likely dopers) may serve as an indicator of how common the extreme blood doping is from country to country. Yes, extreme, not micro-dosing, because those athletes even crashed through the generous ABP thresholds.

Focusing on the countries discussed here:

Kenya 9

Ethiopia 5

USA 4 (Rupp, Jager, ...)

UK 1 (Farah)

Norway 1 (H. Ingebritsen)

So yes, Kenya is the worst offender there, by far obviously, but we seem to be almost on an eye level with Ethiopia. The shame of it.

P.S. Armstrong was ignored by USADA during his whole active career despite his positive tests and numerous witnesses. Froome wasn't cleared, and Wiggins' paperwork "disappeared".

rekrunner wrote:

In fact, you just agreed with me when saying ""about there being no evidence for her doping in Boston".

Lame try. I wrote "you trolled about there being no evidence for her doping in Boston".

rekrunner wrote:

I said "no evidence" that the "IAAF claimed that she was already doping for Boston"

Yes you did. And that was a straight lie. As per usual.

Some Trolls Never Stop wrote:

After reading his posts on this, rekrunner is the master troller!

That's one way of putting it.

Barbara Lerner Spectre wrote:

blah blah blah everyone knows I am Coevett, the racist imbecile coward of LRC

Give it up, boyo.

casual obsever wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

In fact, you just agreed with me when saying ""about there being no evidence for her doping in Boston".

Lame try. I wrote "you trolled about there being no evidence for her doping in Boston".

rekrunner wrote:

I said "no evidence" that the "IAAF claimed that she was already doping for Boston"

Yes you did. And that was a straight lie. As per usual.

You already have him on the ropes and he's grasping for straws. Lol. You easily outwit every time and he knows this. It's so funny to see him backpedaling and using the wordplay game (e.g. "I actually didn't say that but was refering to what someone else said" or "you took my statement out of context...I was talking about another aspect of the case that you can't comprehend).

Rekrunner is the master of wordplay & diversionary tactics.

Blimey! I am not sure where all that vitriol has come from?

For a start, I haven't made any comparisons between Korir and Coe on this thread, and only mentioned the latter in his capacity as head of the IAAF!

I also never made any claim about Korir not being the most talented 800m runner in the world at the moment, which he clearly is. I was merely comparing his form today with his own form from a few weeks ago, which was sublime. I know well enough how good and special 1:42.8 is, thank you very much, and do not need anyone else spelling it out to me. I stated, in light of what Korir himself has been saying this week (that he believes he can run under 1:40), and from analysing his last outing (1:42.05, looking relaxed and with a 25 and bits last 200m), that his run today was somewhat disappointing for him. And I stand by every word of that. I wasn't making any comparison to Coe and neither was I analysing his race for splits/extra distance run (I haven't done that yet), so why would I need to refer to such as you suggest I somehow should?

All this was to make a point to another poster, that Korir's (and indeed Manangoi's )run today did not represent a speeding up of Kenyans in the wake of the Bett incident.

I don't fully understand what point you're trying to make in your second paragraph, but I really don't care what nationality El Keniano is, it is completely irrelevant to me. I have agreed with some things he's written over the years on here, but some of his comments on this thread I disagreed with. He made a half-hearted effort to find some excuse for why Bett may have refused the test; just as he made initial justification scenarios for when Kiprop was busted. For me it wouldn't have mattered what nationality the 2 runners are and whether El Keniano is the same nationality or not. Yes, on a human level everyone tends to look favourably on their own countrymen, but when it comes to drugs in a sport which is being destroyed by them, I have no time for those who try and make excuses for certain behaviour. I would certainly not make excuses for any British athletes that found themselves in the same situation. For me to be 'hypocritical' (something you accuse me of being!) in this matter would involve me making excuses for a UK athlete in the same situation as the one El Keniano defended. Please tell me the exact occasion/s in which I have done this?

Defending athletes from rumours and hearsay based on nothing is not the same thing. When have I defended any athlete that has been done for doping?

I am aware that you have your own differences with the poster Coevett, and I have purposely never got involved. In fact, on a few occasions I have told Coevett that you are a good guy who knows what he's talking about, and should make more of an effort to be civil. I have also not jumped on the 'Let's bash Said Aouita bandwaggon' out of respect for you; as you say, there is no proof and I choose to give Aouita the benefit of the doubt. But I'm not on these boards to 'take sides' on personal issues and slanging matches. I had enough of rude, personal jibes and behaviour that verged on bullying with Ventolin. I think I'm a pretty level headed guy who is generally polite and isn't on here to make enemies. If I agree with someone I'll say so, if I don't, I'll argue my point and back it up with evidence or data of some sort to support it. Sometimes I make mistakes, which is human, and I'd like to think I'm better than most in apologising or acknowledging when I have.

There are a lot of things which Coevett states that I disagree with, but I'm not going to criticise or argue against him for the sake of it, when I think he has made an accurate or salient point. I tend to take people as I find them, and how they treat me. I have been criticised several times in the last few days for defending Coevett. I don't see it as that at all. Just because I like a few brush strokes from an artist, it doesn't mean I'm necessarily in awe of the final painting! And I am not encouraging him to lie! That is nonsense, and something which I find quite offensive tbh. I am not his keeper and I'm not on here to somehow edit or censor what he writes! That is the job of the moderators, if and when they see fit to do so.

With regards to the comments in your 4th paragraph, they would have been more useful and in context had you posted them on the relevant thread/s. The thread you are referring to was on the greatest 'Distance' runner in the UK. The fact that several others posted Farah's and Coe's names at the top of the list, meant it would be pretty impossible for me to post without reference to Coe, wouldn't it? But again, I stick by what I stated. There are a lot of people in the UK who would rank Coe and Thompson ahead of Farah as Britain's greatest ever athlete.

My argument was that you cannot compare athletes from different eras that didn't have the same opportunities. 6 World Championship golds are absolutely relevant when comparing Farah to Bekele, as they both competed during an era when there were World Champs every 2 years throughout their respective careers. But they are very much less relevant when using as evidence to state Farah is/was better than Viren, or Yifter or Coe, or even Aouita.

And yes, Farah's double golds were less impressive than those achieved by Viren, Yifter or even Bekele, who all had to run rounds in the 10k and more overall races in their respective campaigns.

I also never said that 800 and 1500 golds were worth more than 5000 ones!?! Where did you get that from? I stated that it would be easier for the best in the world to win the 5k and 10k double than the 8 & 15 double, because there are no heats in the 10000m, as there used to be. History would also appear to back me up, as more long distance runners have managed the Olympic 5000 and 10000m double, than has managed to do the 800 and 1500m double:

Zatopek, Kuts, Viren (x 2), Yifter, Bekele and Farah (x 2) all managed to do the former Olympic double since WW2, whereas only Snell has managed the 8 & 15 double in the same time period. That is my opinion. You don't have to agree with it, but a coherent argument as to why you disagree would be more favourable than using a quote I never gave and using it out of context on a different thread!

I've never stated 'Brits are more ethical'. Commenting on factual doping busts and pointing out that there have been a lot of Kenyans recently is not the same as stating Brits are good. That is, quite frankly, a childish conclusion to make. To be blunt, you are the one who is focusing on 'Brits'in your last paragraph (to the exclusion of any other nation) when the previous poster mentioned half a dozen non European nations.

-Dina Asher Smith ran 10.99 and 22.07 as a 19 year old in 2015; improving to 10.85 (0.14sec improvement) & 21.89(0.18 sec improvement) in 3 seasons does not look suspect to me at all. There have been dozens of US and Jamaican sprinters with far more irregular progression than that. She could well be a doper. But I don't know! If she refuses a test or fails one, then I will have no time for her accomplishments.

-Please tell me which field events the UK is currently leading the world in?

- As for Farah, I have always had my reservations about his late progress and career progression, and I've stated as such on these boards. So we are singing from the same hymn sheet on that one. Unfortunately, he's never been caught or failed a drug test, and no I don't think that there has been some conspiracy at the very top to protect him, he's just been very careful with how and where he trains. If he is guilty and it comes out retrospectively, I will be the first in line to be critical of him and expect his medals to be passed on.

Your final sentence-" For sure I would never accuse seomeone without proof - just the overall view Kenyans are ALL "bad", Brits are (almost) all "good" is just laughable.[/quote] is nothing I have ever written. I have never stated or implied that all Kenyans dope and all Brits don't. I'm afraid you seem to have been angered by someone else, and because I agreed with that person on one or two points, you've decided to have a good old rant at me. Well, here's hoping it's made you feel better.

Barbara Lerner Spectre wrote:

Korir is a terrific cheat. Anyone who runs 1:42 with the final 100m being their fastest 100m of the race is a bit suspect to say the least. The cheating by E. Africans is widespread because so many officials are in on the deal. It's going to take a long time to clean things up. And that doesn't guarantee we'll see Europeans and others embrace the sport and begin competing in decent numbers anytime soon. Three decades of fraud has done a lot of damage. But one of the intended goals, that of intimidating Europeans above all others, making them believe they can't compete in the sport, was achieved for the most part.

He is obviously on the sauce.

casual obsever wrote:

P.S. Armstrong was ignored by USADA during his whole active career despite his positive tests and numerous witnesses. Froome wasn't cleared, and Wiggins' paperwork "disappeared".

Really? How come Froome was allowed to compete in last month's TdF then?

If Wiggins got off the hook because paperwork 'disappeared' then why aren't journalists and papers like the Times going after him ?

casual obsever wrote:

Deanouk wrote:

I’m afraid that the last 2 years have shown that previous testing of Kenyan ( and a few other nations) athletes has been poor at best, non existent and/or corrupt at worst.

Correct. This seems indeed to be improving now.

Yet, to be honest, El K has a point. Just look at us letting blatantly obvious offenders get away, e.g. Armstrong (until after his retirement, ok), Jager, Rupp, and Wilson, or you guys with Wiggins, Froome, Radcliffe and Farah.

So - are we toughening up too, or is it just Kenya?

Well I'm not sure because the only white guys running fast at the moment share the name Ingebrigtsen. ?

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

Barbara Lerner Spectre wrote:

Korir is a terrific cheat. Anyone who runs 1:42 with the final 100m being their fastest 100m of the race is a bit suspect to say the least. The cheating by E. Africans is widespread because so many officials are in on the deal. It's going to take a long time to clean things up. And that doesn't guarantee we'll see Europeans and others embrace the sport and begin competing in decent numbers anytime soon. Three decades of fraud has done a lot of damage. But one of the intended goals, that of intimidating Europeans above all others, making them believe they can't compete in the sport, was achieved for the most part.

He is obviously on the sauce.

See, that's the problem when people like Kiprop and now Bett fall foul of doping rules. It casts a shadow over other Kenyans in the same event/s.

I don't think it's obvious. For a start he trains and is coached in the USA, so I'm presuming he's tested far more rigorously than had he been based in Kenya!

He's also a freak of nature that he can run 44 low for 400m! The only other athlete similar to that was Juantorena, who managed to run 1:43.4 off a couple of years spent running the 800 as well.

Seriously any time on the Monaco track seem to be 0.25-0.5s per lap faster than other tracks.

Subway Surfers wrote:

Seriously any time on the Monaco track seem to be 0.25-0.5s per lap faster than other tracks.

Agreed!

Why are you asking me that? Lots of drug cheats get away, as the sheer numbers show clearly (e.g. over 44% cheat, 1 - 2% get caught). Almost nobody cares. Froome and Wiggins are just two examples, but they show that the British NADO still closes both eyes whenever and wherever possible.

Froome went over the allowed dope amount, and miracously his case was dropped.

Wiggins, for starters see here:

https://www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/39128672