Kenyan 800m Word medallist Kipyegon Bett Suspended After Refusing Drugs Test

Koneko wrote:

George Manangoi is most likely another Kwemoi, will never improve upon his "junior" performances as he's already 27 or so. Kenya running the same boring farce as usual. el K is not Kenyan, just a race-baiting troll. Don't respond to his nonsense.

A paid troll?

Are you suggesting they are doping while not believing it helps? I note you are asking me a question about what I *believe* -- a faith based question. A main difference between Jon and me: Jon talks about physiology and heat and power and energy -- something we didn't always see eye to eye -- while I talk about performance results, as measured by time over a known distance.

Old Cat Runner wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

I'm not sure why I should ever be afraid to show myself here.

Widespread busts will only lead me to say the faith in doping is far and wide and even goes to the top, and to repeat that you cannot prove much more than that with these examples.

I did make an offer once though to not participate in threads that didn't call me out by name, and put wrong words in my mouth.

You can all thank "casual obsever" for inviting me into this thread.

Do you honestly believe that with all PEDs? That's starting to sound like Jon Orange's platform.

rekrunner wrote:

Are you suggesting they are doping while not believing it helps?

I note you are asking me a question about what I *believe* -- a faith based question.

A main difference between Jon and me: Jon talks about physiology and heat and power and energy -- something we didn't always see eye to eye -- while I talk about performance results, as measured by time over a known distance.

JO is on the "thermoregulation" Tour.

dont know if this one has ever been posted...found it INTERESTING....but nothing to see here cause we all know PEDs are just fairy tale myths, they dont work

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3299978/

"The mean Hct of the six subjects before rhEpo treatment was 45.7 ± 0.5%, increasing to 48.3 ± 0.8% within 1 week with the 35000 IU dose of rhEpo. After the 8 week intervention period, the mean Hct for the whole group was increased significantly to 51 ± 1% (Figure ​(Figure1).1). Three of the six subjects received full treatment dosage with a total of 70.000 IU rhEpo over 8 weeks, while two subjects were administered 67.500 and 62.500 IU, respectively. The remaining subject exhibited a strong response to the rhEpo injections, and received a total of 50.000 IU. Epo treatment increased VO2 max by 8.3 ± 2% from 54 ± 3 to 58 ± 3 ml·kg−1·min−1 (Table ​(Table1).1)."

strong respnder? hmmm he must just be the most gullible or mindweak of the bunch im sure of it, prob a racist as well

"The main finding in this study is that rhEpo treatment in humans increased skeletal muscle mitochondrial respiratory capacity."

so EPO is such a strong placebo it even tricks the mitochondria into making gains!!!

mmeehhh flax seed oil will do the same thing and for only $32 an injection.....oh shoot thats $32 for tea

Hydlide wrote:

Will he be loaded with Rosa-juice and be given a fake birth certificate like the others brothers?

Seriously, el K.......... How can you be happy celebrating victories that are so hollow and fraudulent? As a Kenyan you SHOULD want the sport to be cleaned up so legitimate Kenyan athletes can shine, but instead you spend your time defending confirmed and obvious drug/age cheats. Weaksauce, my dude. Weaksauce.

"Hollow and fraudulent"? I assume your suspicion of the Manangois, including the youngest brother who you still don't know, comes information in the public domain similar to that of the oldest of Ingebrigtsens getting outed by the Fancy Bears?

685678 wrote:

Sprintgeezer wrote:

For the record, recent factual findings constitute evidence of 2 things, within the elite Kenyan distance population:

1. Willingness to cheat by using, and

2. Ability to cheat by using.

Not news, I know.

Why don't you marry Coevett, you fvcking racist?

That constitutes evidence of your racism.

Big words from a small mind.

Try again chump. Or is that all you’ve got? Are you actually 14 years old, or do you just have the mind of one?

I know, the truth can hurt. It’s all part of growing up.

ok stop avoiding the question

who are the next two? why do we have to wait like its some bullsh*t reality tv show!

come on el k, you are the supposed boots on the ground, who is it?

brojos make a poll

i think its going to be

Timmaaay "Potato planting" Cheruiyot

and

Beatrice "9 seconds better WR than on WR EPO cheat" Chepkoech

who ya all think?

and guessing

ghost1 and el k is funny and all but with no "proof" they are actually kenyan then we are just as bad as the people on LR lolz

El Keniano wrote:

I really want to know how, in your eyes, I went from an obese, pasty ginger living above a curry shop in Chelmsford, to black panther militant.

That explains a lot, you're an Essex boy:

vivalarepublica wrote:

Anyways, most of the people that continually post in these threads appear to be nuts. And a wise man once told me that you don't interact with crazy. So enjoy circle jerking with each other.

You don't appear to be listening and acting upon what the "wise man" told you, on this or any other thread.

So am I. wrote:

El Keniano wrote:

I really want to know how, in your eyes, I went from an obese, pasty ginger living above a curry shop in Chelmsford, to black panther militant.

That explains a lot, you're an Essex boy:

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=essexboys

like really where the f*ck is chelmsford? pretty interesting a "kenyan" can pull one of those from his "arse"

no your right el k, your a fatty for kenyan standards, nonathletic uncoordinated rich kid, who lives above his slaves...i mean butler and nanny, in the plush estate in Karen.

You're part of the crazies circle jerk. wrote:

vivalarepublica wrote:

Anyways, most of the people that continually post in these threads appear to be nuts. And a wise man once told me that you don't interact with crazy. So enjoy circle jerking with each other.

You don't appear to be listening and acting upon what the "wise man" told you, on this or any other thread.

its pretty much impossible....once you have been sucked into the rabbit hole of stupidity, trash and hypocrisy there is no turning back......soon you will find yourself replying to vent/calculo, helping jamin on his grinder profile, scrolling through 95 paragraphs of rekrunners fallacies, having renato try and scold you, and then arguing with people on who they "really" are lolz

yes truly this place is a f*cking mad house

m!ndweak wrote:

like really where the f*ck is chelmsford?

Essex.

thanks el k....i dont know england for sh*t....but for real it would be the same as if some "kenyan" could pull out some random name of any suburb of some US city, especially from the east coast.

but maybe just maybe, he is kenyan and was educated in england...which would explain his style of talking, his arrogance, and HATRED of all things white, and how he would know of places in london that tea IS $32 a cup

hmmm

and el k prob went to the early years of his education here, before he headed off to london for high school

http://www.pembrokehouse.sc.ke/

You have taken most of my points out of context.

1. Yes, I did point out Coe ran more races (rounds) in Olympic competition than Farah. Coe ran 6 races in 9 days in Moscow and 7 races in 9 days in LA; Farah ran 3 races in 8 days, with a straight 10k final and just one round on the 5000m before the final. Lots of things can go wrong in tactical bunched up heats.

2. Yes, I do think it is easier for the world's premier long distance runner to win the 5 and 10k double than the premier middle distance runner do the 800 & 1500 double, mainly for reasons outlined in point 1 above. My opinion (I'm not stating it as a fact!) is backed up by history, as the longer double has been achieved 8 times since WW2, whereas the middle-distance double has been achieved just once. Furthermore, Yifter had to run 3 rounds of the 5000m and 2 rounds of the 10000m and Viren had to run 4 races in both his Olympic campaigns. So even some of the distance doubles achieved were more impressive than others.

3. I have made my opinions on classifying greatness, which involves comparing athletes from different eras, very clearly on numerous occasions. My stance on this has never changed. Below is what I wrote on the thread-

"The only 2 criteria that have been a constant since the modern era, and which all athletes’ greatness is therefore measured, are world records and Olympic medals.

Farah has 4 Olympic gold medals, with Coe on 2 gold and 2 silver. They are 1 and 2 for British track stars in terms of Olympic success. For 2 of those medals Farah ran just a straight final; whereas Coe had to run 3 or 4 races for each of his.

In terms of world records, Coe has broken more than any British athlete in the modern era, with 8 individual and 1 relay. There are then dozens of other UK athletes that have set outdoor world records. Farah has zero world records.

In terms of British athletes, I would put Coe, Thompson, Ovett and Edwards all above Farah; they had Olympic golds and world records. Thus putting Coe above Farah is not a bias, it is based on measurable, concrete analysis."

I also wrote: - "In terms of long distance then of course Farah is Britain’s greatest, but if you are including the middle distance guys too, then both Coe and Ovett are greater athletes than Mo, who isn’t even in the all time top 10 in either of his 2 best distances.

Farah also had far more opportunities to win medals, as the Worlds are held every 2 years now, whereas they were only introduced (and held every 4 years) during Coe’s career."

I can't make it any clearer than that. This is the criteria which I would use, and which IMO gives equal weighting to those who completed in very different eras.

Also, I never said that World Championship medals were of no importance, or that I, "completely ignore the 6 Gold medals also is no help and definitely totally unfair for the first in this example (and I get the impression this - for me - strange looking at this subject has to do with Coe's (0 / 0 / 0) at the WCs)."

In fact, I listed the criteria I would use to rank athletes as such (on the same thread as linked above): -

"While Olympics and world records are the most important criteria, as you move down the list then other criteria also need to be taken into consideration: e.g.

Medals/ success in other championships;

World Ranking points;

Impact on event; (e.g. Coe’s 1:41.7 or Moorcroft’s 13:00.4)

Longevity;

Quantity of fast times."

Farah's World Championship medals would be included in the 3rd criteria I listed- 'Medals and success in other Championships"

For me, this would be a more significant category had both athletes being compared ticked both the boxes (WRs and Olympic medals) above, and would act as a kind of decider. In that category, however, you should also include European & Commonwealth medals, but also things like European Cups, World Cups, European and World indoor results too, to redress the balance for those athletes starting their careers before 1991; when World Champs changed to every 2 years.

Of course, a caveat to that, is that if you were comparing a European with a US athlete, then European and Commonwealth medals would be irrelevant. So, the list of events included for comparison must have some flexibility depending on who the athletes are being assessed.

As an example of why World Championship successes should be lower down the list of criteria, I also outlined the different opportunities for 2 hypothetical runners competing in 2 different eras: -

"And there are more than twice as many opportunities to win Global medals now than there was in the early 80’s or before.

Career A, from 1970 - 1980- 3 opportunities to win a global championship (3 Olympics);

Career B, from 2000 -2010 - 14 opportunities to win global championships ( 6 world indoor, 3 Olympics, 5 outdoor World Champs."

I did a quick and rough comparison between the opportunities Coe and Farah had during the 12 best years of their careers, had they competed in both their primary events:

Coe 1977 - 1989 - could have competed in 3 Olympics (6 medals), 2 Outdoor World Champs (4 medals) and 3 indoor World Champs (6 medals) , which equals 16 global medal chances. He actually only contested 4 of those finals (1/4 of the races) and won 2 G, 2S;

Farah 2005 - 2017 - could have competed in 3 Olympics (6 medals), 7 outdoor World Champs (14 medals) and 6 indoor World Champs (12 medals), which equals 32 global medal chances; exactly twice as many as Coe. He actually ran in 17 of those 32 races (just over half) and won 10G, 2S and in 5 races, achieved no medals at all.

4. Yes Korir stated that he believed he could break Rudisha's world record this year and that he thinks he will go on to run sub 1:40. It then listed his races for the rest of the year as being Birmingham, Brussels and the Continental Cup, so the consensus on these boards was that he would go for a world record in the first 2 of those races. There was a thread about it here-

And there was a link on the home page of LetsRun to an article where Korir made these statements.

I do not doubt that Farah is one of the greatest distance runners ever, though I would put him behind those who have both Olympic gold and world records. He is also without question the UK's most successful championship runner, being as he has won more medals than any other track star. But, based on clear criteria which I choose to follow, I would not put him at the top of the list for greatest ALL Time UK athletes. For me, Thompson and Coe are the clear top 2 candidates.

I neither have the time, energy or desire to question and argue with every poster that I disagree with. As I have previously written, I went through that with Calculo, and it descends into personal jibes and abusive behaviour. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and those who back up their opinions with evidence and or facts, I will take seriously and respectfully. But to be honest, some of the recent unnecessary trolling has been 2 way traffic. Sometimes saying nothing is more effective and says more about the poster than taking sides and joining in a pointless tirade of abuse with others.

I have always respected your vast knowledge and have generally agreed with your point of view on most things 'athletic’ and have even enjoyed polite disagreements and debates with you, but I have to say I found your tone and implication that I would support and encourage anyone who lies and is a racist quite offensive. Some people can't seem to understand that being critical of Kenyan athletics or some Kenyan athletes, does not make one a racist. I am a great admirer of Coe as an athlete, but that doesn't mean I've ever voted Tory! The 2 are not mutually exclusive.

Sprintgeezer wrote:

685678 wrote:

Why don't you marry Coevett, you fvcking racist?

That constitutes evidence of your racism.

Big words from a small mind.

Try again chump. Or is that all you’ve got? Are you actually 14 years old, or do you just have the mind of one?

I know, the truth can hurt. It’s all part of growing up.

You are a silly, silly person.

You are racist. Yeah, the truth can hurt.

And 14? God no!

And if you think I am 14, then you are even more of a jerk for talking like that to a child.

Hydlide wrote:

Will he be loaded with Rosa-juice and be given a fake birth certificate like the others brothers?

Seriously, el K.......... How can you be happy celebrating victories that are so hollow and fraudulent? As a Kenyan you SHOULD want the sport to be cleaned up so legitimate Kenyan athletes can shine, but instead you spend your time defending confirmed and obvious drug/age cheats. Weaksauce, my dude. Weaksauce.

You are hollow and fraudulent.

You are weaksauce.

685678 wrote:

Sprintgeezer wrote:

Big words from a small mind.

Try again chump. Or is that all you’ve got? Are you actually 14 years old, or do you just have the mind of one?

I know, the truth can hurt. It’s all part of growing up.

You are a silly, silly person.

You are racist. Yeah, the truth can hurt.

And 14? God no!

And if you think I am 14, then you are even more of a jerk for talking like that to a child.

You’re way out of your depth here kid, and you are making an azz of yourself.

rekrunner wrote:

Are you suggesting they are doping while not believing it helps?

I note you are asking me a question about what I *believe* -- a faith based question.

A main difference between Jon and me: Jon talks about physiology and heat and power and energy -- something we didn't always see eye to eye -- while I talk about performance results, as measured by time over a known distance.]

Like pre-1990 North African 5000m times ?