What D1 programs should be great but aren't?

Fordham University, Bronx NY

They have the facilities (Indoor track, Van Cortlandt, Trails) but haven't put much together...yet

chargeoff wrote:

What's the pitch to attract an out-of-state recruit to Illinois or an SEC school?

-- The site of Once a Runner

-- Coached by Chris Solinsky

-- Top 10 public school in US; Top 7 or 8 schools in South

-- Plenty of hills and trails

-- Good weather other than the summer

-- Top 5 facilities

-- Hot girls

-- Drive to beaches

-- Affordable place to live

I’ll echo the poster(s) who mentioned Wake Forest.

Winston-Salem is a great running town with outstanding training venues. Salem Lake’s large, rolling, dirt/gravel loop takes the cake for weekend long runs, of course, but there are various flat, paved greenway stretches across town that are ideal for tempos.

Wake itself has direct access to great trails. There are 1-3 Miles of warm-up trails just off the (beautiful, shielded from the wind, dedicated) track facility, as well as also Reynolda Gardens — with another few miles of trails — next to campus.

When you need an indoor track, JDL Fasttrack — a short drive from campus — is the best flat track facility in the country, hosting high-level college meets and a solid pro invite every year.

There is a robust local road-running scene that features former pros Bobby Mack and Donnie Cowart. Look up the Ultimate Runner event — it’s a special one. The town also boasts at least two seriously gifted running physical therapists for injured athletes.

If the coaches ever wanted to hold an altitude training trip, Boone/Blowing Rock (home of Zap Fitness) are just an hour or two’s drive west.

Wake’s academics are, of course, top notch. Lots of alumni go on to enjoy impressive careers in business after graduation.

The program has a relatively new distance coach (Vig’s successor at Texas, who coached Craig Lutz, Kyle Merber, Joe Stilin, Pat McGregor while they ran for UT) with a solid reputation. Most of the scholarship money is tied up in foreign distance runners (Pat Tiernan’s younger brother is currently on the roster).

The team’s recent underperformance, I would posit, can be chalked up to a defeatist attitude amongst the men, who have been down so godd**n long that it looks like up to them (not to mention a serious proclivity for partying). Wake should be capable of finishing higher than they have in the ACC of late.

University of California Santa Barbara. Very highly rated academically (top 30 in some lists), beautiful campus with amazing places to train and not far from the deepest recruiting area in the country. Very hard to understand how they are not better.

On a somewhat related note, what programs seem to overperform? The programs don't need to be nationally ranked or anything but curious which programs people feel do better than expected.

Sand Dunes wrote:

Colorado

CU is arguably the #1 program in the past 10ish years

Trackrabbit10k wrote:

On a somewhat related note, what programs seem to overperform? The programs don't need to be nationally ranked or anything but curious which programs people feel do better than expected.

Middle Tennessee State is the only men’s team that competed at NCAA XC 2017 that fits the overperformance bill. But the simple explanation is importation of sterling Kenyan talent.

Iona, to a certain extent, over the years. They do have access to Van Cortlandt, but they mostly just load up on British, Irish, Scottish, and Kenyan guys.

The 60k a year price tag doesn't help land big time recruits either. Lots of kids like all the pluses you mentioned until it's time to look at the numbers. I think Wake is a tough sell for that reason.

Limits recruiting to affluent families who can afford a partial scholarship and 200k in debt after 4 years. Blue collar kid with fast times would be better off walking on to a state school, or just getting books paid. They'd only be in the hole 120k with no scholarship.

Ant0099 wrote:

??? They have won their conference for the past nine years on the mens side and have constantly been second or third with the ladies in XC. Occasionally will get a runner to qualify for nationals.

Never settle for just best in conference, especially if you race in arguably the worst D1 conference.

I want my boys in blue to finish top 5 in IC4A/ECAC's. They always disappoint once the race becomes more competitive than the garbage NEC that they race in. Honestly, I think that they shouldn't be losing to UMass Amherst by 30+ points like they did last year.

This season look for Norstrom and the boys to have a breakout XC season and qualify 1-2 for Natty's. (providing he doesn't redshirt).

As for the ladies' side, they are SIGNIFICANTLY in better shape than the men when it comes to being in a league with competition that they can race with, however, they just can never seem to find one breakout star that can lead them to an NEC championship as you have noted.

This year look for them to finish second in their division behind St. Francis and MAYBE qualify Hubbell for Nationals.

I’m curious who the two physical therapists are. I’m just outside of Winston-Salem and dealing with some injury issues, so far I haven’t been able to find anyone particularly knowledgeable with runner specific problems.

Banzagi wrote:

vivalarepublica wrote:

Cal Berkeley is a good answer. Probably suffers from lack of scholarships, but you think the school and area has enough appeal to at least attract top in-state talent.

Cal Berkeley actually not a good answer. They do very well with what they have, but correct, I don't believe much scholarship is put into distance. Plus think of it this way, if you aren't getting money and your choice is Cal or Stanford, which would you choose.

Wrong on two counts.

First, Cal is fully funded or very close to it.

Second, the bulk of the scholarship money, likely more than half, is allocated to distance runners.

Cal isn't a place that is a natural fit for distance runners as it is very urban. Suggesting that it should be a distance power ignores reality.

How can't they? wrote:

University of California Santa Barbara. Very highly rated academically (top 30 in some lists), beautiful campus with amazing places to train and not far from the deepest recruiting area in the country. Very hard to understand how they are not better.

Very little scholarship money for women and next to none for men. They also have a very limited operating budget. Don't expect this to change.

Wyoming. Great facilities, great coach, located at altitude. Program seems to be on the upswing but I could see them being a powerhouse if they could attract solid kids up there.

rdoner wrote:

Wyoming. Great facilities, great coach, located at altitude. Program seems to be on the upswing but I could see them being a powerhouse if they could attract solid kids up there.

Wyoming doesn't actually exist

winnr1 wrote:

rdoner wrote:

Wyoming. Great facilities, great coach, located at altitude. Program seems to be on the upswing but I could see them being a powerhouse if they could attract solid kids up there.

Wyoming doesn't actually exist

Then how do you explain all of the finishers of the West Wyoming Marathon, who most definitely do exist?

Over the past 15-20 seasons of NCAA Men’s D1 XC, it’s hard to beat Minnesota for underperformance.

Raysism wrote:

chargeoff wrote:

What's the pitch to attract an out-of-state recruit to Illinois or an SEC school?

-- The site of Once a Runner

-- Coached by Chris Solinsky

-- Top 10 public school in US; Top 7 or 8 schools in South

-- Plenty of hills and trails

-- Good weather other than the summer

-- Top 5 facilities

-- Hot girls

-- Drive to beaches

-- Affordable place to live

And FL is cheap especially for in state. Not that the program has been awaful but I think Solinsky will make some improvements. He might have some pull from Wisconsin and Minnesota being from there should he choose to recruit there. I can't see much appeal to the other SEC schools however. FL has a lot of funding for track but a lot of that money is going to go to sprinters/field event athletes so I'm not sure how well funded the distance side of the program is.

Yes the conference is garbage since monmouth and qunnipiac left, I just think its highly unrealistic to expect more then what already has been accomplished with the set up. I dont think Central Connecticut or anyone in the NEC should be expected to be great as the OP said. The limited resources the team has, now with the scholarship & Travel reductions I feel like Coach Blake has exceeded Expectations.

NCAA Participation by NEC Runners

1989 Kip Cheruiyot (MSM) 18th NA

Peter Rono (MSM) DNF ---

1990 Peter Rono (MSM)* 15th NA

Carlos Martins (FDU)* NA NA

1995 Bernard Kitur (MSM) 35th NA

1997 Daniel Kinyua (MSM)* 13th NA

2000 Stephen Ondieki (FDU)* 2nd 30:16.3

Brian Sell (SFPA)* 46th 31:17.1

2001 Kevin Doyle (SFPA) 82nd 30.47

Erick Too (FDU) 136th 31.21

2002 Ryan Sheehan (SFPA) 54th 30:45.0

Erick Too (FDU) 119th 31:17.8

2003 Ryan Sheehan (SFPA) 81st 30:45.2

2006 Sam Chelanga (FDU)* 16th 31:24.2

2013 Craig Hunt (CCSU)

i have a lot of thoughts wrote:

Notre Dame, Duke, UNC, Texas, UCLA, Cal come to mind

Take Notre Dame and Duke of the list along with any in the Ivy League. Academics will always limit these programs, mostly in track & field. Cal however, isn't difficult to get athletes into.