You guys are really going off into the weeds on this, a time trial is good for some kids because it motivates them to do SOMETHING in practice before the TT. It creates an initial goal to hit before you actually go to a race.
You guys are really going off into the weeds on this, a time trial is good for some kids because it motivates them to do SOMETHING in practice before the TT. It creates an initial goal to hit before you actually go to a race.
Some of the true XC guys are complaining because they hate when the track guys beat them in the 1600 during XC season.
In the school where I coached for many years and had built up a strong program we would run a hard 3 mile tempo run at the end of the first week of practice. He gave me a good idea where the kids stood before we had our first meet. In the school we I now coach the sport is on a much different level. There's no tradition of success. It's small private school rather than a middle sized public school. Also the kids don't seem to get a lot of running in during the summer when they are on their own. The head coach initiated a mile time travel the first day of practice. It's valuable because it gives us a good idea where they are right at the beginning. Later in the year we do multiple hard mile runs, but right now they aren't ready for that.
Because nothing is more fun than coming back from summer training, spiking up, and running an all out mile with your teammates. We always looked forward to it.
More people can maintain focus over a shorter distance than a longer one.
The shorter distance is more indicative of potential stamina than the longer distance. Easier to extend endurance then to create speed.
TheRunningTroll wrote:
Because nothing is more fun than coming back from summer training, spiking up, and running an all out mile with your teammates. We always looked forward to it.
I agree with this. It was the official start to the season and personally I liked to have something fast to look forward to. We ran a 3kish distance on a grass loop.
The problem with using the 800 meter test to predict cross country racing, is that a sprinter will perform well. A mile tests anaerobic ability some still, but also prevents a 400 meter type or a skinny fat with some speed type from being able to maintain a good pace.
When I ran the 800 test only two of the three sub 16 minute 5k guys beat me, and I ran 19. They were local champs and I barely made the jump from junior varsity to varsity before graduating. Why? The 800 depends on 400 speed, the mile depends on more cardio.
For the mile test I got 6 minutes, of course I could have run faster but it wasn't a race and it was also on a humid day. That was in better shape than running 2:20 for the 800 as well. The 200 meter or 300 meter is a better test because it isolates speed. The mile is a great test because guys with better cardio will time trial closer to race times. The 800 test tells you who needs more endurance training, not who will race well at 3.1 miles.
This thread has caused me to give more thought to our normal routine. I am thinking that we should run something off road that isn't a precise distance, probably a little short of 2k so they have no good comparison of time. Even though we do a long warmup before the 1600 trial, some kids are still a bit disappointed in their time.
Do a 2 mile time trial with a very controlled first mile in 6 minutes.
Everyone is able to run together in a big pack, the fittest will have a big negative split confidence boost.
That's why I have my guys run 2 on the course.
D3 Guys are Silly wrote:
This thread has caused me to give more thought to our normal routine. I am thinking that we should run something off road that isn't a precise distance, probably a little short of 2k so they have no good comparison of time. Even though we do a long warmup before the 1600 trial, some kids are still a bit disappointed in their time.
Funny how you are now agreeing more with me.
Anyone who can't tell the condition of runners for cross country without having them run an all out mile time trial at the beginning of the season is not qualified to be coaching.
A mile time trial works best for a variety of ability levels. Its very easy to estimate threshold paces from this that i find has been accurate for my high school kids 90% of the time. This is more for newer athletes as most experienced coaches and athletes don’t really need this done the first day of practice as I do it. The veterans find it fun and good to see how far a good base phase will get you. That you don’t need all this specific work and hard interval training every week of the year to improve.
2 mile grass loop at the end of the first week is best. Discourages comparing to track times, but allows comparing from the previous season opener tt. Lets you get a good idea for groups and training paces. The other important thing is it establishes a proper pecking order. The first week everyone is trying to see how their fitness stacks up after summer, this gives everyone a better view so they aren't racing in practice. Also, clues in slower runners that they shouldn't be leading/pushing the easy day runs.
This. Workout paces are based on time trial times; especially for rookies. You can then modify pace during the season based on later race times.
Meant to respond to this post in agreement:
It’s not always about figure 5k estimated time but finding out training times. Some coaches use a mile time trial to estimate vVo2max, aerobic threshold, and lactate threshold training pace for the beginning of the season
Old coach new perspectives wrote:
As a coachfor many years, I have had my athletes (HS/MS) do a mile time trial to start XC “camp”. It really is to find out what kind of shape they’re in, and figure out what paces they should be running. Ideally you would want to do a VO2 max run ...run as far as you can in 10 min and then plug the numbers into an equation. But the catch with HS/ MS in my experience, is that anything over a mile and most will just half-a$$ it and you are left with no useable data.
There is a lot of truth here.
The mile is something that almost any athlete will run with near full effort. You can use it as a pace gauge for other workouts and refine as time goes on.
My high school does a two mile time trial at the beginning of the season. Pretty good barometer of fitness.
In college we did 4K time trials and raced 8K. I thought it was similarly dumb.
I've never seen a high