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    • rojo
      co-founder
      • Toni Reavis is upset 2018 Chicago field is loaded. Sounds like he wants to see Mo vs Galen match race 8/10/2018 4:12PM
      • rojo
        co-founder
      • Interesting piece is out by our friend Toni Reavis.

        Reavis wrote:

        Here is a natural rivalry that people might actually want to see, that can be marketed, Galen versus Mo, and then they go lard it up with all these admittedly fast extras who do nothing but steal the spotlight from the one thing that might get people to stop and pay attention. Why? Cause we’ve always done it this way?....

        This sport is dying for attention of the right sort. You think anybody cares if Kenneth Kipkemoi runs in Chicago 2018 besides Mrs. Kipkemoi? Remember when the pacer Ben Kimondiu didn’t drop out in Chicago 2001 and kept all-time great Paul Tergat from the Chicago winner’s circle? Sometimes more is less.

        https://tonireavis.com/2018/08/10/chicago-2018-too-many-candidates-on-the-ballot/

        I don't agree with Toni on this one. The problem with setting up a match race is if one of them pulls a Jordan Hasay and withdraws at the last minute, then you are left with nothing. Same thing if one of them gets sick.
    • kjjhkjhjks
      • RE: Toni Reavis is upset 2018 Chicago field is loaded. Sounds like he wants to see Mo vs Galen match race 8/10/2018 4:49PM - in reply to rojo
      • kjjhkjhjks
      • Yeah the marathon is not great for a match race, and even if it were, Toni is implying what, that these guys are the 7th and 8th fastest guys in the world at the moment and they need to be protected from the big guns? People want to see the best in the world race.
    • coach
      registered
      • RE: Toni Reavis is upset 2018 Chicago field is loaded. Sounds like he wants to see Mo vs Galen match race 8/10/2018 4:52PM - in reply to rojo
      • coach
        registered
      • I remember looking forward to the great duel in the 2003 wc 5000 between El G and Bekele. The beauty of the sport is the opportunity for someone else like Kipchoge to rise to the occasion. Let Rupp and Mo beat everyone not just each other.
    • red glare
      • RE: Toni Reavis is upset 2018 Chicago field is loaded. Sounds like he wants to see Mo vs Galen match race 8/10/2018 5:11PM - in reply to rojo
      • red glare
      • Toni apparently thinks the WMM should be run like a boxing federation. Thank god it isn't.
    • thinking about this
      • RE: Toni Reavis is upset 2018 Chicago field is loaded. Sounds like he wants to see Mo vs Galen match race 8/10/2018 5:22PM - in reply to coach
      • thinking about this
      • coach wrote:

        I remember looking forward to the great duel in the 2003 wc 5000 between El G and Bekele. The beauty of the sport is the opportunity for someone else like Kipchoge to rise to the occasion. Let Rupp and Mo beat everyone not just each other.

        For people like us, I agree with this. Someone like Geoffrey Kirui is fascinating to me because he could be the best in the world, but he's a total unknown to anyone who isn't a pretty big fan. And even to someone like me, I know nothing about the guy on a personal level, or even really what he looks like or his racing tactics. Someone like Dickson Chumba takes this to another level. And Chumba is a FANTASTIC runner.

        Face it: it's much more exciting if you know who the competitors are, well enough to either root for them or against them. Of elite male marathoners, very few of them would appeal this way to the semi-fan crowd:

        Farah
        Rupp
        Kipchoge (he's the Breaking-2 guy, right?)
        Kawauchi

        And even for us, who is EXCITING. Who if you imagine them kicking it in to win do you say "whoa, he did it!" or "yes!" or "fvck that guy". Beyond those four, maybe:

        Bekele
        Kipsang
        Kamworor
        G. Kirui
        Tadesse
        Karoki
        Choge
        Adola

        Certainly there are other possibilities (Webb is back, baby!) But of men who actually have a chance to win, very few do we relate to.

        We all think the best thing to do is to introduce the runners to fans better. Reavis is suggesting another solution. His is much worse, imo, but ours isn't exactly working...
    • have to beat the best to be the best
      • RE: Toni Reavis is upset 2018 Chicago field is loaded. Sounds like he wants to see Mo vs Galen match race 8/10/2018 5:22PM - in reply to rojo
      • have to beat the best to be the best
      • Thank goodness this isn’t set up as another race for Galen or Mo to win easy. They aren’t the best unless they actually beat the best. They only do well when the number of Africans they race are limited or not top quality. Now they have competition. Let’s see what they’re made of!
    • wejo
      co-founder
      • RE: Toni Reavis is upset 2018 Chicago field is loaded. Sounds like he wants to see Mo vs Galen match race 8/10/2018 6:48PM - in reply to have to beat the best to be the best
      • wejo
        co-founder
      • I disagree with Toni.

        They can still market the sh** out of Mo and Galen.

        If you have other people in the race (which is totally needed for the marathon) even better. And other people are often needed when one of the major people has an injury or doesn't run well. I'm surprised Chicago spent as much money on the others but maybe they come cheaper than I thought.
    • richrod
      • RE: Toni Reavis is upset 2018 Chicago field is loaded. Sounds like he wants to see Mo vs Galen match race 8/10/2018 6:52PM - in reply to rojo
      • richrod
      • Toni should take over the West Wyoming Marathon and could invite the kind of field he wants to see race.
    • Quincyschmidt
      registered
      • RE: Toni Reavis is upset 2018 Chicago field is loaded. Sounds like he wants to see Mo vs Galen match race 8/10/2018 7:22PM - in reply to Maybe blind
      • Quincyschmidt
        registered
      • Rupp is not the focus of this most recent press release because he was already announced, a few weeks ago.
    • Avocado's Number
      • RE: Toni Reavis is upset 2018 Chicago field is loaded. Sounds like he wants to see Mo vs Galen match race 8/10/2018 8:01PM - in reply to rojo
      • Avocado's Number
      • rojo wrote:
        I don't agree with Toni on this one. The problem with setting up a match race is if one of them pulls a Jordan Hasay and withdraws at the last minute, then you are left with nothing. Same thing if one of them gets sick.
        I thought Toni's response to that objection was pretty funny -- and, I'll admit, refreshingly un-PC-ish:

        "Well, that’s why you still have a women’s race and the wheelchair push-rim division to serve as a backup."

        Toni may be right about what attracts a broad audience. As he pointed out, Nike’s Breaking2 Project was very successful in attracting a big audience to watch a single, focused story for two hours. Kipchoge came through, more or less. A few purists like me may have considered it a contemptible marketing gimmick, but it basically accomplished what Nike wanted.

        I'd much rather see an unpaced race, but I'm glad to see that Chicago has added some depth, even if -- as Toni fears -- it continues to allow "anonymous, interchangeable champions to come and go like ghosts."
    • kmaclam
      registered
      • RE: Toni Reavis is upset 2018 Chicago field is loaded. Sounds like he wants to see Mo vs Galen match race 8/10/2018 9:51PM - in reply to Avocado's Number
      • kmaclam
        registered
      • I'm actually with Toni on this one. I don't think he's suggesting that just Mo & Galen are on the start line, but sheesh, when will this egotistical NY vs. Chicago 'my fields deeper than your field' thing ever end. Do we really need Mo & Galen completely obscured for the bulk of the race by 11 other participants in the lead phalanx. Not including how many pacers? Of course Tiger vs. Phil will be a marketing gimmick also, but here gimmick is code for: genius, $$$, eyeballs, ad revenue, viewership, ratings....
    • Carl Spackler
      • RE: Toni Reavis is upset 2018 Chicago field is loaded. Sounds like he wants to see Mo vs Galen match race 8/10/2018 11:15PM - in reply to Do you think hesaurus?
      • Carl Spackler
      • Bump the "Dan and Dave" reference as a potential hazard for setting up a 2-person marathon rivalry.

        It seems that track/road racing needs to continue to find out what makes golf, car racing, and similar sports (with multiple participants competing concurrently) spectator friendly and encourage that with how events are staged and broadcast.
    • NewtotheSouthSide
      • RE: Toni Reavis is upset 2018 Chicago field is loaded. Sounds like he wants to see Mo vs Galen match race 8/11/2018 7:05AM - in reply to Carl Spackler
      • NewtotheSouthSide
      • The piece itself isn't awful, although I don't agree with it. I think it's right that it's hard to commentate during a marathon because a dozen bios get thrown at you and the general public has zero attachment to any of them. The mass public doesn't have favorite runners. In golf and tennis, you follow your favorite few but can still appreciate the game no matter who wins. In running, most people follow nobody and don't know a good time versus a bad time. So why should we cater to the general public? Mo and Galen are two of the biggest names in distance running and some folks in the general public do know who they are. If we're trying to build the sport, sure, we should be promoting them in the lead-up to this race. But you can do that and still have an invited runner field. Actual fans of the sport don't want to see two runners with nobody else there in a marathon. The women's race was boring last year when Dibaba broke away. That was eventually a 1 v 1 match-up. Chicago has prize money for the top finishers, and probably time bonuses. When you have a huge marathon like Chicago, they have a duty to build up the sport by getting as much prize money to as many people as possible. Marathon running just isn't popular. The people who follow the sport are way more excited about this year's field vs last year when the field appeared to be a bit watered down. Marathoning is more exciting when you have a ton of good runners competing and people still in it late. A 1 v 1 duel doesn't give you that in a marathon when someone could drop out at halfway. The 1 on 1 stuff is nice for shorter races where you don't need months to recover. Maybe they can try out a 1 v 1 for a half marathon or for an obscure distance like a 12k or 25k. Also, if you can't see the value of bringing Yuki to Chicago, an international city with international runners competing in the mass start, think about it some more. Yeah, he might not win but I'm sure there will be lots of people trying to snap a photo with him race weekend.
    • Skobuffs
      • RE: Toni Reavis is upset 2018 Chicago field is loaded. Sounds like he wants to see Mo vs Galen match race 8/11/2018 7:39AM - in reply to NewtotheSouthSide
      • Skobuffs
      • NewtotheSouthSide wrote:

        The piece itself isn't awful, although I don't agree with it. I think it's right that it's hard to commentate during a marathon because a dozen bios get thrown at you and the general public has zero attachment to any of them. The mass public doesn't have favorite runners. In golf and tennis, you follow your favorite few but can still appreciate the game no matter who wins. In running, most people follow nobody and don't know a good time versus a bad time. So why should we cater to the general public? Mo and Galen are two of the biggest names in distance running and some folks in the general public do know who they are. If we're trying to build the sport, sure, we should be promoting them in the lead-up to this race. But you can do that and still have an invited runner field. Actual fans of the sport don't want to see two runners with nobody else there in a marathon. The women's race was boring last year when Dibaba broke away. That was eventually a 1 v 1 match-up. Chicago has prize money for the top finishers, and probably time bonuses. When you have a huge marathon like Chicago, they have a duty to build up the sport by getting as much prize money to as many people as possible. Marathon running just isn't popular. The people who follow the sport are way more excited about this year's field vs last year when the field appeared to be a bit watered down. Marathoning is more exciting when you have a ton of good runners competing and people still in it late. A 1 v 1 duel doesn't give you that in a marathon when someone could drop out at halfway. The 1 on 1 stuff is nice for shorter races where you don't need months to recover. Maybe they can try out a 1 v 1 for a half marathon or for an obscure distance like a 12k or 25k. Also, if you can't see the value of bringing Yuki to Chicago, an international city with international runners competing in the mass start, think about it some more. Yeah, he might not win but I'm sure there will be lots of people trying to snap a photo with him race weekend.

        +1