Jakob: This is ridiculous, I should do well in the 5 k tomorrow.

Why can't people understand this?

The east Africans are good, yes they are better than people from other poor countries to varying degrees, they are better per capita than any other people. That's the nature of it, period. But, they dope against each other and by virtue of that, dope against everyone else. Therefore, on the whole look better and win more and with more faster times in the mix then should be. That is still a deception and a disservice to themselves, especially young east african people, but also everyone else.

Cooooeeevettt wrote:

SprintTriathlon wrote:

This is ridiculous, I should do well in the 5 k tomorrow.

Maybe I will celebrate tonight though, a donut or something.

Big smile.

Had he been born in Kenya, LRC's resident racist would have called him an age cheat and a doper from a doping culture.

Riiiight?

Keeping it real.

Had he been born in Kenya, most likely he would have been an age cheat. If you look at Kenyan grade school and age group competitions, you rarely see those athletes. Kenyans in global competition are usually not age appropriate.

Can we just not enjoy the talent and performances of this kid.

If there is evidence that appears shady then fair enough, but there is none and at 17 he really can't be benefitting from years of PEDs, unlike the rest of the runners that I assume all from this site believe are doped to the gills.

deliberator wrote:

Why can't people understand this?

The east Africans are good, yes they are better than people from other poor countries to varying degrees, they are better per capita than any other people. That's the nature of it, period. But, they dope against each other and by virtue of that, dope against everyone else. Therefore, on the whole look better and win more and with more faster times in the mix then should be. That is still a deception and a disservice to themselves, especially young east african people, but also everyone else.

That was the old school of thought. However since this there are enough positives to question this assumption. I think Japan is the limit of human endurance performance in terms of global national programmes with the absence of PEDs.

rato. wrote:

If there is evidence that appears shady then fair enough

Well, Henrik was called likely doper by the IAAF, ranked more suspicious than Kiprop in 2016...

is Henrik the only dirty one? wrote:

rato. wrote:

If there is evidence that appears shady then fair enough

Well, Henrik was called likely doper by the IAAF, ranked more suspicious than Kiprop in 2016...

I thought his name was Jacob.

He just smashed the 5k. A legend at 17

Is he a better 1500m runner or 5000m runner?

I’m 17 and 3 min slower wrote:

Is he a better 1500m runner or 5000m runner?

Yes!

I’m 17 and 3 min slower wrote:

Is he a better 1500m runner or 5000m runner?

Based on what I just watched, 5k as his 1500m speed will blow anyone away in the last lap.

Also he became the only runner to ever win both the 1500 and 5000 at a European Championship

rayo. wrote:

deliberator wrote:

Why can't people understand this?

The east Africans are good, yes they are better than people from other poor countries to varying degrees, they are better per capita than any other people. That's the nature of it, period. But, they dope against each other and by virtue of that, dope against everyone else. Therefore, on the whole look better and win more and with more faster times in the mix then should be. That is still a deception and a disservice to themselves, especially young east african people, but also everyone else.

That was the old school of thought. However since this there are enough positives to question this assumption. I think Japan is the limit of human endurance performance in terms of global national programmes with the absence of PEDs.

Japanese have their share of cheats, but they are cleaner than most. In distance running the E. Africans are far and away the biggest cheats, even with the high percentage of talented people they possess.

Jakob isn't on drugs. And the people trashing him know it. Jakob is tested far too often. The E. Africans are doped to the gills. And their defenders know it. They're so warped they feel the E. Africans should be allowed to cheat.

Cooooeeevettt wrote:

SprintTriathlon wrote:

This is ridiculous, I should do well in the 5 k tomorrow.

Maybe I will celebrate tonight though, a donut or something.

Big smile.

Had he been born in Kenya, LRC's resident racist would have called him an age cheat and a doper from a doping culture.

Riiiight?

The problem with your post is that administration and birth deaths and marriages are far more accurate in Norway than Kenya. That's a t root of the problem.

Same thing happens in Tasmania. Babies are born, they grow up and die and never get registered :-)

rayo. wrote:

deliberator wrote:

Why can't people understand this?

The east Africans are good, yes they are better than people from other poor countries to varying degrees, they are better per capita than any other people. That's the nature of it, period. But, they dope against each other and by virtue of that, dope against everyone else. Therefore, on the whole look better and win more and with more faster times in the mix then should be. That is still a deception and a disservice to themselves, especially young east african people, but also everyone else.

That was the old school of thought. However since this there are enough positives to question this assumption. I think Japan is the limit of human endurance performance in terms of global national programmes with the absence of PEDs.

The positives don't make the "assumption" wrong at all. Nor do good Japanese marathoners. Africans may dope like crazy, but they are still better. I'll give you that the japanese are good….probably not as good ,and if so, that overblown assumption can only be made for the marathon. East Africans have proved to be better for greatest range. IF doping is all there is too it than why can't the Japanese men compete at a greater range?

deliberator wrote:

rayo. wrote:

That was the old school of thought. However since this there are enough positives to question this assumption. I think Japan is the limit of human endurance performance in terms of global national programmes with the absence of PEDs.

The positives don't make the "assumption" wrong at all. Nor do good Japanese marathoners. Africans may dope like crazy, but they are still better. I'll give you that the japanese are good….probably not as good ,and if so, that overblown assumption can only be made for the marathon. East Africans have proved to be better for greatest range. IF doping is all there is too it than why can't the Japanese men compete at a greater range?

I did not say wrong, but the recent busts have added an element of doubt and therefore people are in their right to question the stance you were calling posters out for.

crmroen wrote:

rayo. wrote:

That was the old school of thought. However since this there are enough positives to question this assumption. I think Japan is the limit of human endurance performance in terms of global national programmes with the absence of PEDs.

Japanese have their share of cheats, but they are cleaner than most. In distance running the E. Africans are far and away the biggest cheats, even with the high percentage of talented people they possess.

Jakob isn't on drugs. And the people trashing him know it. Jakob is tested far too often. The E. Africans are doped to the gills. And their defenders know it. They're so warped they feel the E. Africans should be allowed to cheat.

+1

Jakob has posted on Instagram at least two or three times in the last couple of months photos of himelf giving a blood sample for a random test. Yet to see that from Tim or the Manoingois. Well, they could at least post an Instagram pic of the texts from the Kenyan testers informing them of the date and time and demanding a good cup of Earl Grey...

rayo. wrote:

deliberator wrote:

The positives don't make the "assumption" wrong at all. Nor do good Japanese marathoners. Africans may dope like crazy, but they are still better. I'll give you that the japanese are good….probably not as good ,and if so, that overblown assumption can only be made for the marathon. East Africans have proved to be better for greatest range. IF doping is all there is too it than why can't the Japanese men compete at a greater range?

I did not say wrong, but the recent busts have added an element of doubt and therefore people are in their right to question the stance you were calling posters out for.

It doesn't seem like they are right. With what we have had to observe so far it takes bias or ignorance to say that the East Africans aren't the best distance runners.

Where there is room for doubt , and you get a lot of presumptive deniers here too, is ultra-mountain running.

I am not saying Africans wouldn't dominate but they haven't proved it. Personally I think there is a good chance the skinny lower legs won't be good. There may be other physiological components we are ignorant about in regards to predicting mountain running success for them. Again, not enough evidence either way.

Had he been born in Kenya, LRC's resident racist would have called him an age cheat and a doper from a doping culture.

Based on prior scenarios, of course a Kenyan is always susceptible.

But I'm calling drugs on this guy too. Norway all of a sudden with good milers? I smell bullcrap.

deliberator wrote:

rayo. wrote:

I did not say wrong, but the recent busts have added an element of doubt and therefore people are in their right to question the stance you were calling posters out for.

It doesn't seem like they are right. With what we have had to observe so far it takes bias or ignorance to say that the East Africans aren't the best distance runners.

Once upon a time it would have been ignorant to say Kiprop or the best Kenyan female marathon runners were on PED's.