Brett Larner ran the 2020 Tokyo marathon course exactly 2 years before the race - it was 88 degress (31 C) at the start!!

I agree with rojo. I haven't been to Tokyo in about 20 years but back then it was a massive concrete jungle packed with brightly lit buildings, and I doubt that has changed much. I would think that ambient light would be plenty for a marathon after sundown or (better) before sunrise. I'd think they should start the marathons in the dark around 4 am and finish shortly after dawn before the sun has gotten very high. (Not sure exactly where Tokyo is east-west-wise in its time zone. In my neck of the woods the sunrise is currently a bit past 6 am.)

I may have a warped perspective as I do most of my running starting around 5 am, which means running in the dark most of the year. I live on the outskirts of a small city, but sparsely distributed street lights provide plenty of illumination in most areas.

i run in the heat of the summer days - so I can also say this is going to be brutal.

For clarity - the real indicator of the humidity is the dew point not the relative humidity (while related, the % of RH can be very misleading whereas the dew point is very clear)

according to the post (using a reverse dew pt calculator

http://www.dpcalc.org/

the starting dew pt would have been 76!

that matches what I found when I was looking up the historical dew points for Tokyo in August. saying the RH rose to 88%, however, is probably not accurate - that would result in a dew point of 89 if we place the temp at 93 (that is highly unlikely and a near world record). Even at 88 degrees the dew pt comes out to 84 if the RH is 88%.

it is more likely that the dew point stayed pretty consistent at 76 degrees throughout the morning = still very bad. But knowing the dew point is very important in preparing for, and monitoring the conditions, as well as looking for alternative (different times or places). If the officials realize how ridiculous running a champions marathon is in these conditions they will need to find the best place/time with the lowest dew point. Staying out of the sun is a big factor.

my dew point running conversion goes like this:

60-64 dew = minor

65-69 dew = moderate

70-74 dew = major

75-79+ dew = danger

we are talking about doing a marathon is the danger zone!

Holy cow, just looked up average temps in Tokyo and in early August, the average low is basically 80 degrees. What a terrible place to try and hold a Summer marathon, especially the Olympics.

Walmsley needs to make the Olympic team.

If that is indicative of the 2020 weather, it all but assures gold for Galen Rupp. I cannot wait.

It should be held at night as that would be dank.

Lydiard Cerutty wrote:

It should be held at night as that would be dank.

Super dope

I think they don't want to run during the night because of TV. The runners will be able to navigate the roads just fine when it's dark, but on TV the viewers won't be able to see a whole lot.

Imagine if these video was taken in the dark:

https://youtu.be/GKXfpOZqREg?t=2m21s

amkelley wrote:

(Not sure exactly where Tokyo is east-west-wise in its time zone. In my neck of the woods the sunrise is currently a bit past 6 am.)

I was in Japan the first week of August two years ago and the sun rose before 5am, and that was in Osaka, which is west of Tokyo. According to

sunrise is at 4:50 today in Tokyo. It might be better to start the race at 7:30 or 8 PM, when the sun will have already set.

It is the Summer Olympics after all, not the Spring Olympics, not the Fall Olympics and certainly not the Winter Olympics. Summer indicates that it should be hot. No need to make concessions for the marathon because of the the temperature.

This race will let us find out who is the best at running a marathon in the summer. Which is kind of the point of the SUMMER Olympics.

Worth noting that last Tokyo Olympics (remember Billy Mills?) were in October.

Rome Olympic Marathon ended at night, with torches (barely) lighting the way.

Though nothing is going to make a big dent on Tokyo humidity. In some ways, this could help U.S. marathoners, as did the tough heat and hills of Athens 2004. It will level the playing field, so to speak, vs speed events like London and Berlin.

Seems

I lived in Tokyo and running during the Summer is miserable no matter what time of the day. I watched the Osaka WC where the marathon was run in the morning with a winning time 2:16. Later, we rode on the bus with a 2:12 guy who ran in race and said it was impossible for him to be competitive.

Nope Nope wrote:

It is the Summer Olympics after all, not the Spring Olympics, not the Fall Olympics and certainly not the Winter Olympics. Summer indicates that it should be hot. No need to make concessions for the marathon because of the the temperature.

This race will let us find out who is the best at running a marathon in the summer. Which is kind of the point of the SUMMER Olympics.

The 1896 Olympics were held in April in Athens.

Tokyo 1964 was held in October for the very purpose to avoid the summer heat and humidity and with the experience of Rome in mind.

Mexico City was also held in October for appropriate weather.

Swimming and gymnastics, indoor events, are now dominating the mindset of the TV people dictating the schedule.

Not all summer is the same. Tokyo 2020 will predictably have the worst conditions ever. The demands of marathoning at dewpoints 75+ is flat out dangerous to health. And because heat affects judgment, athletes cannot be relied upon to pull themselves from the course.

The limit will be pushed until something really bad happens and then IOC will say, gee, how could we know it would happen this time?

I hear Sapporo is quite tolerable that time of year.

It will not be any worse than Atlanta 1996. I tied up running around while spectating that race. There will be a portion of the best athletes who do just fine in the Tokyo conditions. None of them will be Americans.

frank fields wrote:

Nope Nope wrote:

It is the Summer Olympics after all, not the Spring Olympics, not the Fall Olympics and certainly not the Winter Olympics. Summer indicates that it should be hot. No need to make concessions for the marathon because of the the temperature.

This race will let us find out who is the best at running a marathon in the summer. Which is kind of the point of the SUMMER Olympics.

The 1896 Olympics were held in April in Athens.

Tokyo 1964 was held in October for the very purpose to avoid the summer heat and humidity and with the experience of Rome in mind.

So, your two examples are from the first Olympics , which was not considered "Summer" Olympics and another one that was over 50 years ago. The facts are that the Marathon conditions are going to suck pretty much any place awarded the Summer Olympics.

Another possibility: hold the marathon on a ring road around Mt Fuji. Or one of those roads like the one that goes -around the lake on Mt Hakone.