This is the workout that told Jerry Schumacher that Shelby Houlihan was ready to run the American 5000m record in Heusden.

jka wrote:

Glad to see Schumacher is a Canova disciple. Pulled this straight from Mosop.

Really? Where did my coach pull it from ... in 1983?

Natural-runner wrote:

And no body is thinking she is doping? I think all the people involve with Nike are suspicious. Shelby is a great running but she just broke the U.S 5k record by improving her PB by 25 seconds. Anyway, good for her and i hope she is not doping.

And why would we want to think about that anyway? There's no proof that's she doping. Maybe she is and then again maybe she's not - but there is no proof.

Lets enjoy her continued success and quit always bringing up doping. If we get a legimate reason to suspect doping other than just running fast & breaking records, then we can scrutinize her all we want. But until then, cheer Shelby on! ?

round and round wrote:

Natural-runner wrote:

And no body is thinking she is doping? I think all the people involve with Nike are suspicious. Shelby is a great running but she just broke the U.S 5k record by improving her PB by 25 seconds. Anyway, good for her and i hope she is not doping.

you obviously didn't read the article.

she said, several times, that her 15:02 pb was not reflective of her fitness last year or this. she said she could have probably run 14:40's last year. So, it would have been a 12-15 second pb (from 15:02), followed by a 10ish second pb this year to get AR

Nothing crazy for someone who focused on the 800/1500m distance in college

That’s what every runner says ever.

Also, if she focused on the 800/1500, why is she dropping such quick 1500/mile times now? Hmmm...

Macdaddy wrote:

round and round wrote:

you obviously didn't read the article.

she said, several times, that her 15:02 pb was not reflective of her fitness last year or this. she said she could have probably run 14:40's last year. So, it would have been a 12-15 second pb (from 15:02), followed by a 10ish second pb this year to get AR

Nothing crazy for someone who focused on the 800/1500m distance in college

That’s what every runner says ever.

Also, if she focused on the 800/1500, why is she dropping such quick 1500/mile times now? Hmmm...

Because she had the speed but lacked endurance. Pretty obvious.

sh

Macdaddy wrote:

Also, if she focused on the 800/1500, why is she dropping such quick 1500/mile times now? Hmmm...

It's time to lay the myth of Shelbo800 to rest. Maybe she "focused" on the 800/1500 in college, but starting with the outdoor season of her sophomore year, she raced like a 1500/5000 runner. She ran a few 800s during the season, but didn't ran the 800 at NCAAs after indoor season of her sophomore year, when she ran the 800 at NCAA Indoors but didn't make the finals. After that, moved up and she only ran 1500 and up at PAC-12 & NCAAs, indoor and out. As has been pointed out above, she had quite a bit of success at the longer distances. She was NCAA 1500 champ in 2014 and runner up in the mile and 1500 in 2015. (Ironically, she lost in the 1500 when Rhianwedd Price outkicked her!)

She finished in the top 10 in NCAAs in Cross Country in 2013 & 2014.

Given this record, it's hard to see why anyone is surprised she's a 1500/mile/3000/5000 runner now.

PS She did run the 800 at US Nationals her junior year. She made it to the final, where ran her PB. She also finished next-to-last, 2 seconds behind the other collegian, Laura Roesler, who finished second.

Macdaddy wrote:

if she focused on the 800/1500, why is she dropping such quick 1500/mile times now? Hmmm...

Because she's faster now.

I am still suspicious about Nike athletes. I still believe she is clean but the way she progress to an American record is amazing. Shelby was good runner but not a great runner when she was in NCAA. she might have won one or two NCAA championships but she definitely was not dominant.

You are right. I am not a drug cheat and i do not use any artificial pills to help my performance. And again i am not saying she is doping but her progress to an american record is suspicious. She is running very fast in every distance she is running. Look her PB in 800, 1500, 3000,5000 last year and now. She suddenly became one of the favorite in the world in all those events. She could easily run under 1:58 and run under 14:40? how many white female runners can do that in history? so yea her improvement is amazing and suspicious.

Natural-runner wrote:

Look her PB in 800, 1500, 3000,5000 last year and now.

This is literally impossible! She hasn't run an 800 since 2016., and didn't run an indoor 3000 last year. Plus, her fastest 1500 in 2017 was 3 seconds slower than her PB, set in 2016.

When you are this careless about the basic facts, it makes it hard to take anything you say seriously.

Cavorty wrote:

Houlihan is a beast wrote:

That workout would be way too fast for me and my PB is 14:37. What does that say about me? (Note: My speed is horrible, 5k is the shortest distance I can run decent at.)

I would be the opposite. I could do have done the session, but not the 14:37 5000m. I was more on the speed end, and found running a decent 5000m a stretch.

Interesting. I have an almost identical 5k pr to Shelby (14:34.1 I think), and I think this workout would have been very hard but doable. I always struggled to hit sub-3:30 1200s in practice, but I also didn't do many workouts with quite as much rest as she's taking here.

1500 Metres 3:57.34 Lausanne (SUI) 05 JUL 2018

1500 Metres 4:06.21 Birmingham (GBR) 02 MAR 2018

One Mile 4:24.16 Boston, MA (USA) 10 FEB 2017

3000 Metres 8:36.01 Boston, MA (USA) 03 FEB 2018

This what she have done the last year. and you she has not run 3000?

Natural-runner wrote:

I am still suspicious about Nike athletes. I still believe she is clean but the way she progress to an American record is amazing. Shelby was good runner but not a great runner when she was in NCAA. she might have won one or two NCAA championships but she definitely was not dominant.

An NCAA title and two runner-up finishes is just good but not great? You have some pretty harsh standards.

Now, that was funny, and accurate. Thank you very much.

The reason that this workout was tough for you but relatively easy for Houlihan is that she can run in the 14:20s. She ran 14:34 when she had never run anywhere near that before and so wasn't confident enough to try for something faster, and she had likely no drafters after 3k. If she got into a race like Rabat, she'd have people to pace her the entire way at a better pace and would run in the 14:20s, I am sure, just like Hassan.

bigtool05 wrote:

Cavorty wrote:

I would be the opposite. I could do have done the session, but not the 14:37 5000m. I was more on the speed end, and found running a decent 5000m a stretch.

Interesting. I have an almost identical 5k pr to Shelby (14:34.1 I think), and I think this workout would have been very hard but doable. I always struggled to hit sub-3:30 1200s in practice, but I also didn't do many workouts with quite as much rest as she's taking here.

1200 @ 5k goal pace

3:00 rest

2 x 400 @ Mile goal pace with 1:00 rest.

3:00 break.

3 sets Total.

Is this correct?

Natural-runner wrote:

1500 Metres 4:06.21 Birmingham (GBR) 02 MAR 2018

One Mile 4:24.16 Boston, MA (USA) 10 FEB 2017

3000 Metres 8:36.01 Boston, MA (USA) 03 FEB 2018

This what she have done the last year. and you she has not run 3000?

More pontless, careless mistakes! Why?

1) I did not say she had not run a 3000 in 2018. I said she did not run a 3000 indoors in 2017.

2) That mile time is from over a year ago, so why do you say, "This is what she has done in the last year"?

Your original post was about how much her PBs dropped in the last year. My point was that you included several distances where those comparisons can't be made.

Break in down wrote:

1200 @ 5k goal pace

3:00 rest

2 x 400 @ Mile goal pace with 1:00 rest.

3:00 break.

3 sets Total.

Is this correct?

Break in down wrote:

1200 @ 5k goal pace

3:00 rest

2 x 400 @ Mile goal pace with 1:00 rest.

3:00 break.

3 sets Total.

Is this correct?

No.

400s at 3k pace.

Shelby's 1500/mile pace would be 63-64.

She was supposed to run the 400s at 68. She ran them a little quicker but still slower than mile pace.