Common guys!! You're all so close!!!
Common guys!! You're all so close!!!
02:29:39 Congrats @mikemike!
Great race @smoove!
I look forward to hearing about everyone's experience and any tips you have for those of us racing over the next several weeks
2h29 for mike, 2h30 for Smoove and 2h31 for immunorunner (1h13 half!)
Who else?
Congrats everyone, you have all rocked and set the bar very high for us running a few weeks from now!
I made it to 2:28:04, lost 2:27 on the very last hill. Smoove, Mike, and I had a moment early in the run. There was another with us but I want sure if that was immunorunner
Thanks everyone! So thrilled to have done it. Will write up a race report later when I've eaten my way through more of Chicago.
I started really slowly so I was able to run a little bit with @sloflo (I think he ended up with 239ish), @immunorunner, @smoove, and @andy (and some others that I think were running with @smoove?). Was fun to meet you all on the course even if it was brief - was super nauseated after the race and had to head back to the hotel to puke so so we'll need to grab beers at the next one.
Congrats to @andy on the disciplined performance and PR and @smoove on the masters $$$ and not falling off to 233 like I though he might ;) I think without the final headwind, soggy shoes, and last hill we might have seen a 227 and a couple more 230s.
Congrats all of you for your solid performances!! looking forward to hearing details on how the race was and also nutrition wise.
Andy 2h28, Mike 2h29, Smoove 2h30 and immunorunner 2h31 have all had very solid races, and SoFlo was in 2h32 pace until km 35 or so, congrats for the brave race and for your 2h39 done it the hard way!!
Two weeks to go for me, looking to some fresh insight from you as I start tapering and also for honest predictions. There's no place to seek better final advices than this thread from the experienced runners here.
Here is what I plan until race day:
11 days to go - either 8-10 x 1000m with 60s recovery, or 6 x Mile with 60s recovery, or 2 x 2 miles with 2 min recovery - what would you guys recommend?
8 days to go - 10 Miles going progressively, perhaps going MP for the last 3-4 miles, finishing the workout in 60 min or so - does that sound too fast 8 days before the race?
5 days to go ~ 4 -5 x 1000m @ HMP with 60s recovery
here is a summary of what I have done and highlights / downsides:
last Saturday I tried the Hanson's workout ( 2 x 10 km w/ 10' jog between, ran the first in 35:20 and struggled to go 35:30 for the second, dehydrated in the end and a lot on my legs - was expecting sub 35 for the 1st and sub 34:30 for 2nd).
average mpw for the last 14 weeks - 65
peak week: 84 miles (I did run 100 for a 7 days strech but not from Monday to Sunday as I count one week).
lowest week: 43 miles (one of the weeks traveling and doing treadmill running)...
long runs of at least 30 km: 7
best workouts:
- 25 miles @ 2h32 pace at the end of a 80 miles week
- Half marathon @ 1h13:40 (Solo effort, 25 degrees celsius, did not push that hard)
- 3 x 5000m in 16:43 / 17:25 / 17:25 (too fast for the first one, this was the hardest of all the workouts I have done. Perhaps could have averaged 17:10 if evenly paced)
- 4 x 2 miles in 10:45, 10:49, 10:54, 10:49, one lap jog between (02:30)
- 5 km in 16:55, 5' jog, 5 x Mile in 5:20, last in 5:10 w/ 90s jog
- 3 km in 10:00 min (5:20 mile pace for nearly two miles) 3' rest, 2 km in 06:31 (~05:15 mile pace for 1.25 miles), 2' int, 1000m in 3:10, 1 int, 1000m in 3:12, 2 int, 2000m in 06:33 (~5:16 mile pace for 1.25 miles), 3' int, 3000m in 09:52 (5.16 mile/pace for nearly two miles), total 7.5 miles of solid workout
- 10 km tempo in 34.20 some 36 hours after a hard track workout
worst workouts
- the only i can remember that i did not achieve the expected performance was the Hansons' 2 x 10 km I tried this weekend. The 3 x 5 km was also poorly paced. But my real downside was the mileage, which has been somehow inconsistent.
again, congrats to you all and i hope to run well like you did in two weeks!
rfm - did you say 25 miles at 2:32 pace? 5:49/mi?
and for those last few workouts, just do whatever you think will help your confidence without any struggle. better to be conservative with less than 2 weeks to go.
mikemike - I found a photo of you on the instagram account of my friend Jeanne Mack. her account is jmmackattack. good thing you mentioned your planned wardrobe or I wouldn't have caught it!
Hey reed, tks for noticing, that was a typo, it was 25 km or roughly 15.5 miles.
Congrats @mikemike, @AndyDufresne and @Smoove for the prs and all around stellar races! @SoFLo, way to hang in there and gut it out!
I had a lot of fun out there. Here's my race report for a 2:31:54, a 1:04 pr. At the start I got as close to the front of corral A as I could, and when the gun went off had to do some bobbing and weaving in the first 200 meters. This didn't stop me from hitting the mile in 5:28... Despite my plans (oh plans) to be moderate about the start, I got out pretty hot. Just after the mile I caught up with Smoove and another guy shooting for 2:30ish out of Columbia U. I told Smoove that I would settle into around 5:43s and get to the half in about 1:14:30...then proceeded to reel off the next 5 miles at 5:35-5:40 pace. I found a small group that happened to be rolling along at about my speed and tried to draft as we headed north along the lake. At this point the pace still felt easy, although I was getting a little anxious.
Over the next few miles, I slowed ever so slightly to 5:42-5:43 and fell off the pack a little. I was about 50 meters behind at mile 10 (56:2x). Around 11 or 12 @mikmike caught me and mentioned that @AndyDufresne was in the group up ahead. We were around a few scattered runners and the wind was starting to pick up. We had a brief discussion about joining the group up ahead to block the wind, but I was hesitant following a few more 5:36-5:38s. @mikemike charged ahead and I hung back. Half in 1:13:47 (2:26 off my pr from last month). I groan to myself and make a conscious decision to slow but the damage was done. For the next 5 miles I ran 5:43-5:46 and was starting to feel heavy. The fast group ahead maintained pace and I was in no man's land for most of this stretch. Despite my slowing, I caught a few stragglers and tried to latch on but they were fading badly. By around 16 I was starting to feel bloated and full of sugar water.
I started to tell myself that I was going to be ok and that 5:40 pace wasn't out of the cards, just a 7 mile tempo to go! Mile 19 was a 5:39, and then it happened: 6:02 at mile 20. I came through in 1:53:mid and told myself that I could still hang on. 21 was a 5:58 and I took this as a small victory. Around here @Smoove caught me and encouraged me stick it out with him and finish it off together. We rolled for a little while, but I didn't last long. My stomach felt like garbage and my form was terrible but I knew I could still pr. The next few miles were a blur (a 6:18, 6:02, 6:05, 6:09) and even when I got to 800 to go it just seemed too far. I slouched myself over the last hill at 6:12 pace and I can't remember ever feeling as pained as I did then.
Take aways: I need to stop training on an empty stomach. I typically just wake up, chug a glass of water and go. Yesterday my gut just wasn't used to running that fast for that long on a full tank.
I should probably go over 20 miles occasionally during long runs. I topped out at 21 once in the cycle but the rest were in the 18-20 range.
Lastly, I just have to be tougher mentally and not go out way over my head.
Overall it was a great experience and I'm more than happy to have broken my 2 year old pr. @mikemike and @Smoove, it was great to roll with you guys for a while! I hope we can do it again sometime.
It was good running with you. I saw a good picture of us running together, but I noticed I definitely ran right into you - so sorry. I remember it now, it was totally unintentional. My body wasn't fully under my control at that point.
That's funny, I don't even remember.
Immunorynner, was the Columbia guy named Pat by chance? Former Jacuzzi Boys teammate of mine. He ended up hitting 2:29
I ran 20 miles or so with Columbia Pat.
was distracted Sunday with all the races around the world, but I did manage a solid week last week.
tuesday - paced my friend trying to hit the W OTQ at CIM for 4x8min tempo with 3min rest. 5:45-5:50 pace. felt harder than it should but this was a morning run and I'm not fully energetic yet.
friday - paced another friend for even more tempo repeats. this time all at 5:40/mi. 800-1600-2400-1600-800 with 100-200-300-200m rests. on the track and pretty boring, honestly. felt a little harder than actual tempo pace. again, a morning workout, which I will need to get used to.
did 15 easy and ended up with 68 miles with a rest day on saturday. feeling pretty good at this mileage and I am motivated to run even more, but I'm going to continue to increase slowly and steadily.
I've started scheduling some races in the horizon. long term the plan is to peak for a 50 miler in early April, with a 50k 5 weeks out. in the meantime, I'll do a couple more XC races and a turkey trot, and I'd really like to get in low 33min 10k shape for those. Club XC in spokane is an option, though an expensive one. I'm still signed up for Houston but doubt I'll want to buy plane tickets and hotels for that. So I guess I'm not marathon training at all anymore. My ultra training will actually end up being very similar to marathon training because the races I'm doing are fairly flat, which means that it's still very important for 6:00 to 7:00 pace to feel very comfortable. I won't be concerned whether MP is 5:43 or 5:53, which is actually mentally a nice break.
I look forward to more race reports about Chicago, and especially to seeing what people have learned from the race itself.
Yeah, that was him. Nice guy, glad to hear he made it.
@smoove man I'm really kicking myself for not cruising with you guys for longer when I had the chance. Those 5:35s just felt so easy at the time...
Awesome job guys! Way to gut it out. @mikmike I was glad I got to meet you and briefly run together! Congrats on sub 2:30 - @Andy, you as well! In better conditions, you would’ve had sub 2:27 for sure.
@Smoove! I know you wanted sub 2:30, like all of us, but way to kill it and shut up some of the haters and nay-sayers!
@immunorunner – 1:13:47 half! Great job sticking it out with such a fast 1st half!
@rfm – that snippet of your training looks good to me! I’d say you have a decent shot at sub 2:30. Best of luck and keep us posted on how it goes! Last 2 weeks for me consisted of a low 60-mile week with fartleks 11 days out, 13-miler @ 6:31 pace 8 days out, and 4x1200m @ T 5 days out. As Reed suggested, do something that makes you feel fast without digging into the well. Best to err on the side of caution. 98% of the hay is in the barn, doesn’t make sense to risk everything for the extra 2%.
As for me, the race didn’t go as I’d hoped for, but it was still an amazing experience and learned so much! There were so many little things I took for granted like the time it took entering the park, to places to warm up when there are so many people, to packet pickup and every small thing in between. I ended up having to do a small jog inside corral A and some half-ass drills, like a lot of people did, because of the crowd. Luckily, I had a decent position and was able to cross the starting line less than 10 secs after the gun went off.
As @mikemike mentioned, we were able to run a bit for the 1st mile, and after that, he was off. I think I saw him up until mile 5ish. The temperature was great, but the on-and-off rain mixed with the cold really got to me at the end. I wish I would’ve worn gloves to keep the hands warm during the later stages of the race.
I cramped up all over my body when I crossed the line and had uncontrollable shivering with my lips turning blue. I had to be escorted to medical tent, but after a few mins to think about it, I asked to go back to my charity tent. I knew my girlfriend was waiting and the meds said if I went into the tent, it might be hrs before I could come out.
The energy throughout the entire race was electric! I was able to move up to different groups throughout the first half but found myself breaking a lot of the wind doing so. Jorgenson was about 20m ahead of me for a while and was working with a big group but took a handful of miles to close the gap and eventually pass. I had two guys I was able to work with from the half until mile 21ish. We were on pace to run low/mid 2:30s up until mile 18 and we said if we can make it to mile 20 and feel ok, we might have a shot at sub 2:30 with a fast last 10K. I had my right hamstring randomly cramp up at times after mile 17 until the finish. Right after mile 21, I could begin to feel the heaviness and by mile 22, I knew the wheels were going to fall off, I just didn’t know or expect them to fall off so badly. The wall, bonking or whatever you want to call it really does happen fast and hard! The last 4.8 miles were miserable as a bunch of people kept passing me and my body just despartely wanted to stop moving and lay down. The two guys I was running with until mile 21 ended up running 2:30:21 and 2:30:39.
This was easily the most grueling mentally and physical thing I’ve done and the best humbling experience I’ve had. I have a new-found appreciation and respect for marathon vets of any level. The good take-aways are at least I didn’t have any GI issues like 2 weeks ago during the half with Smoove and I thought I did a decent job getting liquids in throughout the race. I took gels at 5, 10, 17, and 22 miles. Drank water almost every other mile for the 1st half and water + Gatorade almost every other mile in the 2nd half.
Overall, it was such an inspiring and motivational experience and will run another one, just not any time soon! I gave myself a shot at sub 2:30 with a 1:15:06 opening half and I’m happy to walk away knowing I did the best I could on Sunday with the experience and level of training I had.
Quick questions for you marathon vets: how long do you guys take off after a marathon before starting up again? I know everyone’s body is different, but what has worked for you in the past? I have a money 5K 11/09, 10K State Championship on 11/19, money 5K on 12/01, and Houston half on 01/20. Do you guys do any cross training during your break? Eat junk food, etc? Is 1 week of no running good, and then start back up with 3-4 mile easy runs? I know some of these races are soon, so I don’t mind pulling out of maybe the 1st 1-2 races I mentioned.
Garmin splits (for whatever they’re worth): 5:45, 5:43, 5:56, 5:40, 5:39, 5:42, 5:45, 5:43, 5:44, 5:36, 5:42, 6:10, 5:25, (I’m sure mile 13 and 14 are off), 5:43, 5:49, 5:46, 5:42, 5:40, 5:51, 6:07, 6:50, 7:44, 7:55, 8:01, 8:55 (last .28).
Good luck to all those whose races are coming up in a few weeks! Thank you everyone for sharing your training, experience, and providing words of encouragement!
Welcome to the marathon So Flo - I don't know if anyone ever feels like they quite get it right. I know I am still searching.
Sorry you had a rough day out there. It is just a matter of getting some experience for you, I think, because you were fitter than me on Sunday, but you didn't get a chance to put it all together. But this first marathon experience will go a long way towards helping you put it all together next time.
I have to say, while I am feeling a little bit better today, I am still sore as heck. I honestly wonder if the softness of the 4%s worked certain muscle groups a little bit more. No complaints about the shoe - if I ever run another marathon, I will wear them again - just wondering if they have their own unique post-race soreness signature.
I'll post more of a recap than a full on report of my Chicago experience. Hopefully with an eye towards a few of the things I try to focus on in the marathon. I feel like I don't have a lot to say about the race, but I'm not sure if that's just because I'm still a little bit dull on emotions after the highs of the race and celebrating (pretty hard) with my friends all day Sunday and part of Monday.
I covered my training ahead of time but there are some changes I will make for the next one. First of all it was a last minute pivot to run this fast at Chicago. I'm only ~11 weeks into my training block and the original plan was to peak in Dallas 9 weeks from now, so the structure of the plan doesn't make a whole lot of sense at the macro level.
Over the summer I worked on raw strength (in the gym), then pivoted into sprint work, then 300-400 meter repeats, hill sprints, and long hill reps. Following that mesocycle I did a one of a weekly short VO2 workout + either 10 @ MP or 5 @ ~LT, plus an easy long run. Following that I did a super compensation week of 140 miles (all easy), then my last 4 weeks looked like this:
4 weeks out: Hard 21 mile progression ending close to LT
3.5 weeks out: 4 mile tempo
3 weeks out: HM race
15 days out: Hard 21 mile progression ending close to LT
12 days out: VO2 max intervals (7x3:30 "on")
11 days out: 5K race
8 days out: 5K race
Obviously the 5K races don't belong but they were very fun! Next time around I'll do my last workout as a 20-25 minute LT run about 9 days out and then strictly easy running with a couple of 1-2 minute surges in the final week. I would also rather have run an easy 24 miler in there 3-4 weeks out along with an extra LT run 18 days out, but my schedule was dictated by the weather and my limited ability to recover, and so I combined quality + distance each of those last 3 weekends.
Nutrition-wise I went through a bottle of Maurten 320 from about 20 minutes before the start through the 2 mile mark. Gu at 4, Gu at 8, then picked up another bottle of Maurten 320 to drink from mile 14-16, Gu at 19, and that was it. I would have liked to take one more Gu but my stomach wasn't feeling it. I would love to have elite bottles at a race some day - drinking an entire ~18oz bottle of fluid over the course of 3 miles is kind of uncomfortable. Ultimately ended up with 940 calories over 3 hours = 78 grams of carbohydrate per hour. Right on target.
Pace-wise, I want to object to some characterizations I've heard about marathon pace being relatively easy at the start of races. I guess I've just never felt that way, it always seems like something I have to force (which is why when I train at marathon pace I always use a progression run). My goal for the first bit was 5:40-5:45 per mile, and then I was going to shoot a couple seconds faster for 17:30 per 5K thereafter (knowing I will have given up 15 seconds on the first 5K). I didn't see the first mile marker or the first 3 K markers so my first indication of pace was the 2nd miler marker at ~11:32, so I knew I was right on my "goal" but I needed to start to pick it up.
5K was at 17:47, 5-10K was 17:29, and so I was ready to just continue on pace. By this point I had ditched my bottle and had a Gu so I was truly settling in and focusing 100% on good form (no clenching, stay relaxed). For the first time I liked my stride in the VF4%s. I would tuck into a pack and check my breathing and it was pretty consistently at a 3 steps in-3 steps out pattern. This was an old trick I learned from Daniels Running Formula, but basically I know that as long as I'm breathing easier than 2-2 I'm at marathon pace so I don't need to worry. 10K-30K were basically just a continuous exercise of latching onto a runner, checking my breathing, and continuing on to the next runner if my breathing was OK. At various points it was getting hard so I stuck around for longer. However I was really lucky that there was another runner working through the field in the same way I was and so I yo-yo'd back and forth with him throughout the day. Early on I felt like he was running too hard for me to really latch on to him but then I'd get close to him before he took off again. He paced very well until he started to slow around 40K, so I ended up finishing just ahead of him.
10-15K was 17:21
15-20K: 17:17
20-25K: 17:22
25-30K: 17:14
30-35K: 17:29
By 35K, when I hit the lap button I didn't even look at my split time. I knew based on the clocks that I was ahead of 17:30 per 5K (which is 2:27:40 I think?). I was now deep into the red line and knowing the pace wouldn't do me any good. I had gone from 3-3 breathing to 2-2 full time at about mile marker 18, which I rationalized as acceptable because there was only about 50 minutes left in the race and 2-2 is roughly LT effort.
35-40K: 17:48
40-42.2K: 8:10 (~18:35 5K pace)
So, the deceleration began at some point around 33-34K. Slow at first, and I fell below my original goal pace around 38K. At 40K I was still well under my goal time but the buffer was deteriorating quickly and I lost it at the hill on Roosevelt.
I didn't realize it until looking at the raw data just now, but I think I left my goal on the table because of a lack of discipline. Those 10K-30K splits are appropriate if I'm shooting for sub-2:27, but knowing my goal was sub-2:28 I should have backed off when I saw 17:17 at the 20K mark. But then again, I was pacing off a runner who was running those splits. I wonder how much lower my effort would have been if I had slowed down but run alone. I won't spend too much time thinking about it because it's moot - the circumstances at every race will be different.
Reading about all of your races has me very excited to race myself! I've learned a lot, mainly: Stay very discipline so as not to go out too fast the first several miles.
I'm considering doing the following workout this weekend (4 weeks out from my race) as a sort of last long effort and to simulate race day concerning nutrition and gear: 4up + 16 @ 5:45 + 4dwn.
Any thoughts on this workout? Is it too much? It should end up being 24 miles in about my goal time (2:30).
I'd appreciate any advice!
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