The 800 and Emmanuel Korir 1:42.05!!! and Clayton Murphy 1:43.12!!! are BAAACK

it's always been in the cards, the 44 400 kenyan who has just a little bit of cross country ability.

that guy would set the WR and go 139.

Korir fits the bill, as rojo pointed out a while ago.

https://www.iaaf.org/athletes/kenya/emmanuel-kipkurui-korir-311758

the last factor is the mental one, the mindset of a jordan, with good health the 139 really is a given.

actually the mindset is more rare than the athletic ability.. in sport there are only a couple of guys in the world at any one time that has that mindset. brady, jordan, bird, lebron, surprisingly no one in soccer despite having the best talent of all....

in the world cup, they all crack, every last one of them.

but a mindset of a messi certainly wll do.

That is fantastic that Murphy is apparently all the way back. Just a couple months ago it was still not clear that he was even going to be a 1:45 guy this year, coming back from injury. He showed quality in the last month but still this is just .2 off his pr. With him all the way back and Berian running 1:44 again, we've got 2/3 of our 800 hopes pretty much back. What happened to Donavan Brazier this year? He's not even racing in Europe.

This was expected of Korir for over a year. Now he figures to go on to run a series of 1:41s and maybe even challenge the world record. He certainly has more than enough 400m speed to do it. 49.9/52.2 are excellent 800m splits--but 27/25 on the second lap is so unusual that you'd think that he is in shape to go 25.5 for the third 200 to 1:15.4, and then close in 26 for 1:41.4.

The level of difficulty in soccer is one of the highest in team sports. Having one talented individual is never gonna cut it; you still need an above-average supporting cast. Even a fairly bad soccer team can frustrate the best soccer team in a match

100%. The key to breaking the WR is the 3rd 200 but it’s easier said than done. Kipketer was capable of beating the WR years before he did - it just took him time to trust that he could hold on in the final 200 after hitting 600 in the necessary 1.14 mid range. Mentally it’s easier to kind of rest that 3rd 200 and then push as hard as you can in the final 200 because if you explode you are much closer to the end of race. This is the typical 800m time triallists dilemma.

But Korir is young and so fresh with respect to top class 800m running - if he can stay out of his own head, throw caution to the wind 400-600 he has the finishing strength and speed to run 1.40.6-7

KJKJ wrote:

He also got married.

Salazar today -

4:14 Women's Mile Win (Hassan)

1:43 Men's 800m (Murphy)

3:35 Men's 1500m Win (Centro)

Was someone saying something about Scumacher?

centro also 3:31.7 a few days ago

NotToMention wrote:

Future healthy Murphy looks like a dominating force in not only the 800 but the 1500/mile as well.

What races is he going to dominate with 3:36 PR ability?

That is sloooow on the world stage.

Payday wrote:

Taking them through the 600m mark isn't going to cut it. Someone needs to be a threat all the way through. See 2012 London 800 final as an example. Rudisha was not breaking 1:41 without Amos being on his ass.

That is an idiotic post. Amos was in no way challenging Rudisha in the closing 150 of London 2012. Did you even see the race?

Rudisha also ran 1:41 multiple times with no "threat all the way through," and basically soloed a 1:42.1 at altitude.

An 800 runner doesn't need someone on his shoulder to run his best. Sometimes a fast match-up even slows the final time because the effort slackens from 500-700 (see Korir saving up to kick down Amos and company yesterday). Bram som taking Korir through 600 in 1:14 is exactly what will bring the WR.

Silas Stichmo wrote:

And let me emphasize how incredible this race was (as I was sitting at the finish line). Korir was approximately 49.9 at the Bell so closed out in 52.1 but with a 25.2 last 200m. So final lap of 52.1 going 26.9, 25.2. I have never seen a final 200m this fast in such a quick overall race. Not from Rudisha, Kipketer, nobody.

I can’t help but entertain the possibility that if Korir can keep it together and commit to the crucial 3rd 200m off a fast pace, he might legitimately challenge Rudishas WR.

Wow, the laps splits of 49.9/52.1 look normal, or even a bit too even (maybe he could go out in 49.4). But that those last two 200 sections make for a unique way to run the back 400 in a fast race.

Here is exactly how the WR will go:

48.7 / 51.0 --> 1:40.7

23.8

24.9

25.3 (1:13.8)

25.7 (1:40.8)

You heard it here first.

800 expert fan wrote:

Silas Stichmo wrote:

And let me emphasize how incredible this race was (as I was sitting at the finish line). Korir was approximately 49.9 at the Bell so closed out in 52.1 but with a 25.2 last 200m. So final lap of 52.1 going 26.9, 25.2. I have never seen a final 200m this fast in such a quick overall race. Not from Rudisha, Kipketer, nobody.

I can’t help but entertain the possibility that if Korir can keep it together and commit to the crucial 3rd 200m off a fast pace, he might legitimately challenge Rudishas WR.

Wow, the laps splits of 49.9/52.1 look normal, or even a bit too even (maybe he could go out in 49.4). But that those last two 200 sections make for a unique way to run the back 400 in a fast race.

Here is exactly how the WR will go:

48.7 / 51.0 --> 1:40.7

23.8

24.9

25.3 (1:13.8)

25.7 (1:40.8)

You heard it here first.

While I agree with the basic principal that the groundwork has to be done in the first 600m in order to break 1.41 (exactly as Rudisha did in London) I thought your splits looked a little fast for a 1:40.8 and they are - you didn’t get your math right there kimosabé.

Your numbers actually add up to 1.39.7 which I’m not sure if happening in either of our lifetimes. Thing is, when it gets this fast the margin for error is virtually non existent with almost every 100m segment of the race. I actually agree with some others here that pacemaking isn’t really that important when it gets this quick - it’s actually better for potential WR candidates to set their own rhythm, exactly the way Rudisha did in London and exactly the way Semenya has done in the two sub 1.55’s. By contrast Wilson Kipketer I think could have run sub 1.41 (like well under 1.41) back in 1997 in Zurich if he hadn’t gone through 400 in an absurd 48.2 (especially as he ran faster a week later in Köln going through in 49.3)

I’m not sure I am fully vested in Korir yet until I see how he goes after hitting 600m in under 1.15. Given that Rudisha never closed out one of his sub 1.42’s in faster than 26.4 I think I if Korir could close in 26.0 it would be phenomenal.

Working backwards from 1.40.7 (ballpark plausible with Korir given what we know his talent is) he hits 600m in 1.14.7 and to get there needs to run his first lap in 49.2 and the third 200 in 25.5. That’s the only way it’s happening.

200m 24.0

400m 49.2 (25.2)

600m 1.14.7 (25.5)

800m 1.40.7 (26.0)

What did Jake the Snake Roberts always say?

“Trust me”

3:36/3:52 is a great 1500/mile time for a competitive 23 year old 800 meter runner. Also the fact whenever he has raced these it has been in May/June..for that time of the year those are great marks especially when beating people of the likes of Matt Centro and others. Much like everyone else, if he were to race a competitive 1500 later in the year say July/August there is no doubt he’d be closer to a 3:31-3:32 which is definitely fast enough to win quite a lot of big races. Also to emphasize his age again, he has a lot of room to grow in the event as he has many years left in the sport.

TheTruthIzPainful wrote:

wejo wrote:

This is shaping up for a great 800 year.

2 days after Amos ran 1:42.14 in Monaco, Emmanuel Korir destroyed him (Amos was 4th) and took back the world lead.

Murphy has come back well from surgery. And being the first clean runner across the line is another thing to be proud of as well.

Why?! Just don't say stuff like that. Ever.

It's your opinion and that's all it is. You don't know either way so don't even comment on it because it's not your career and reputation you're commenting on.

longjack wrote:

in the world cup, they all crack, every last one of them.

but a mindset of a messi certainly wll do.

that's because there are 10 other players on the field with them...

Clayton needs some 400 reps. He also needs to work on his start. He came off the line slow.

I didn't care about Murphy's time as much as that he pressed much closer to the pace. That is a great sign going forward. You can't be dense enough to sit back and pretend everything will collapse perfectly in front of you.

Silas Stichmo wrote:

wejo wrote:

This is shaping up for a great 800 year.

2 days after Amos ran 1:42.14 in Monaco, Emmanuel Korir destroyed him (Amos was 4th) and took back the world lead.

And let me emphasize how incredible this race was (as I was sitting at the finish line). Korir was approximately 49.9 at the Bell so closed out in 52.1 but with a 25.2 last 200m. So final lap of 52.1 going 26.9, 25.2. I have never seen a final 200m this fast in such a quick overall race. Not from Rudisha, Kipketer, nobody.

I can’t help but entertain the possibility that if Korir can keep it together and commit to the crucial 3rd 200m off a fast pace, he might legitimately challenge Rudishas WR.

With his leg speed Korir would barely feel a 49 flat. His 3rd 200 is crucial though. It doesn't have to be as good as Rudisha's though. 25.6 would work. Hit 600m around 1:14.60 - .3 behind Rudisha's time. Last 200 26.1 = 1:40.70

sounds like all Korir needs is a great pacer through 500-600m

I think to break the world record Korir needs to go through faster than 49.2

He needs at least 49.0

24 25 25 26 are the kind of splits needed.

Hypocrisy wrote:

It Will Happen wrote:

I agree. Now that the greenlight has been given to dope to play off the Kiprop mess, Kenya and Ethiopia will provide fantastic examples of what PEDs and talented people who are high responders can do.

Yes, the IAAF has long planned to up the thresholds to create WR opportunity and improve the popularity of the sport, thus filling their pockets. Kiprop was a scapegoat to mask that.

But also athletics is being ruined by all these African age cheat dopers. Nobody wants to watch because these obvious cheaters always win. This sport is going to die because of these cheaters.

Age cheats only matter at Junior/U20 level. Means nothing as adults.

Age cheats are certainly a big issue at that Junior level though.