Timothy Cheruiyot runs 3:29 FTW in Paris!!

Nips and tatties wrote:

Subway Surfers wrote:

The real question is can you plant potatoes anywhere or does it have to be done in the remotest parts of Kenya?

So now he is also to blame for being born where he was.

Hey! Let's ban all Kenyans not born and raised in Nairobi!

Hi El Keniano ?

too many self-important windbags wrote:

What specifically have I said that leads you to believe I am an imbecile? I merely observed that many people in this thread seem to think they are experts on doping. I've made no claims regarding Cheruiyot.

Why would someone have to be an "expert on doping" to be suspicious of Kenyan performances given the big hole they've dug themselves into?

Have you been living in a cave or something? 50 or so doping positives for Kenyan runners over the last several years. Big, huge names such as Kisorio, Jeptoo, Sumgong and now Kiprop - the *3rd* freaking fastest man ever at the 15 and only one of 3 to run sub-3:26...all POSITIVE for DOPE!!!

And now this report:

➡️“This one has hit us where it hurts most,” Moses Kiptanui, a three-time world 3,000m steeplechase champion, told Reuters.

“Marathon runners failing dope tests was almost becoming normal. But when it came to the 1,500m, we were shocked. More so, Asbel (Kiprop), whom many youths looked to as a role model.

“We are mourning. From rural to urban areas, this has shaken everybody to the core,” he said."

- "This one has hit us where it hurts most,” ?

- "Marathon runners failing dope tests was almost becoming normal." ?

So, instead of criticizing some of us who are very suspicious of any Kenyan performances with this "doping expert" BS, look to where the blame should go to. They've laid the foundation of an atmosphere of suspicion with these big names getting bagged for doping! These aren't just a few "run of the mill" doping cases over the years. Even Kiptanui recognizes the problem and isn't making any excuses.

Suspicious that Manangoi has a big drop off in performance too. Wasn't he on the Fancy Bears list?

I find it interesting that in the previous years there would be 5-6-7 Kenyans noticeably better than someone like Holusa in teh 1500. Now there is only one. Changing of the guard?

Subway Surfers wrote:

Nips and tatties wrote:

So now he is also to blame for being born where he was.

Hey! Let's ban all Kenyans not born and raised in Nairobi!

Hi El Keniano ?

It's the second time you do that.

Grow up.

Renato Canova wrote:

The problem is that there are NOT regular posters who are very well researched in the field of training. I think some people don't want to hear what it's possible to do with training, and prefer to think that researches with sick people or with amateurs with very little training can be applied to top runners too..... nothing new there.

When you already have an idea in your mind, and don't accept to look around for finding other sides of the same problem, it's useless to speak with you. How all the extremist in the world, simply you are not perfectible.

Hello Renato. I couldn't have put it better myself. That is exactly what I was thinking. Your right. I agree with everything above. Your philosophies inspire the fukk out of me. I would be honored if you would couch me. I'm looking to get faster. Ok I'll never be elite, but it would be good to be competitive. I'm not happy with my results for the past 3 years. Can we be friends and you train me?

Other Kenyans too wrote:

Suspicious that Manangoi has a big drop off in performance too. Wasn't he on the Fancy Bears list?

His sister just died.

He won the commonwealth's early this year.

Think This One Through wrote:

Why would someone have to be an "expert on doping" to be suspicious of Kenyan performances given the big hole they've dug themselves into?

Have you been living in a cave or something? 50 or so doping positives for Kenyan runners over the last several years. Big, huge names such as Kisorio, Jeptoo, Sumgong and now Kiprop - the *3rd* freaking fastest man ever at the 15 and only one of 3 to run sub-3:26...all POSITIVE for DOPE!!!

Don't forget Jebet (she's probably never been to Bahrain).

Banana Bread wrote:

Hello Renato. I couldn't have put it better myself. That is exactly what I was thinking. Your right. I agree with everything above. Your philosophies inspire the fukk out of me. I would be honored if you would couch me. I'm looking to get faster. Ok I'll never be elite, but it would be good to be competitive. I'm not happy with my results for the past 3 years. Can we be friends and you train me?

You want Renato to give you a couch? ?

Just curious, what do you think is the best 1500 m performance possible without doping?

When everyone runs 3:30 and few runners are clearly faster (like ElGuerrouj, Lagat...) they must be doping of course. If everyone runs just 3:32-3:34 now and someone runs 3:29 (Cheruiyot) he must be doping, too.

So the point is that it's all relative. If someone is better than others, he is suspicious. However, there will always be someone the best 1500 m runner at that time, regardless of which kind of doping and which kind of testing procedure is in use, actually. And that runner would always be suspected by others who can not imagine that performance is possible...

3:28. WR should be 3:28 low in my opinion. Don't know whether El G could have done that or whether we've already seen that runner clean or not.

Partridge wrote:

Just curious, what do you think is the best 1500 m performance possible without doping?

When everyone runs 3:30 and few runners are clearly faster (like ElGuerrouj, Lagat...) they must be doping of course. If everyone runs just 3:32-3:34 now and someone runs 3:29 (Cheruiyot) he must be doping, too.

Great logic...

Everyone was running 4:01-4:02 in the Mile and then Bannister ran 3:59. Then Landy 3:58. Then Ibbotson 3:57... Bunch of dopers!

I coached athletes as Silas Kiplagat, who immediately ran 3'29" in his first meeting in Europe, after running the previous year 28' flat in 10 km on the road, and of course his training was not the best for the new event.

I coach athletes as Ronald Kwemoi, who, without any specific training, ran 3'28"81 (still the World Junior Record), practically coming from the bush.

Silas arrived to 3'27", Ronald was stopped last year by e stress fracture during Monaco meeting, after winning Kenyan Trials with 3'30"89 in Nairobi (that means something such as 3'27" at sea level).

Silas was sometimes more individual, so I didn't have the full control on him. But, about Ronald, I'm sure 100% he is completely clean, and never took anything. Also, I saw all his OOC test, and his off-score are widely under the suspicious levels.

I think that an athlete with the talent of Ronald, training with the right professionalism for a period of 4 years, can run under 3'25" completely clean.

Timothy Cheruiyot was very much less talented under the technical and physiological point of view. But, compared with the other top (who are Manangoi and Ronald himself), has a big continuity, and shows big personality. He was able to grow year after year, and probably can run near 3'27" this year, also if I don't think can be already ready for the WR.

Who works with the best athletes CLEAN, well knows where it's possible to arrive for these athletes.

Who NEVER had the opportunity to work with some of them, can only think they are so strong because of doping, in this way limiting the possibilities of personal performances under the mental point of view.

I believe in training, not in doping, and the training is the reason of the performances, not doping.

Heard it here first. Silas Kiplagat's own coach can't be sure if he is clean

3:27 is on the edge of impossible. 3:28 low is the clean limit.

Obviously those posters were wrong like they have been before and will be again in the future, and they will merely fall back on their "he's doping" excuse.

ex-runner wrote:

Heard it here first. Silas Kiplagat's own coach can't be sure if he is clean

And it's great that he admits it

ex-runner wrote:

3:27 is on the edge of impossible. 3:28 low is the clean limit.

Why do you say that?

I know, I know. I know who ran under 3:27. But imagine that you love running and you are extremely talented, and you run 3:30 in your first competition.

Three years later you run 3:26. Everyone calls you a doper.

ex-runner wrote:

Heard it here first. Silas Kiplagat's own coach can't be sure if he is clean

3:27 is on the edge of impossible. 3:28 low is the clean limit.

Kiplagat appeared on the FB leaked WADA document from 2016 as "likely doping" with a (+++) priority rating. Under the notes though, there's no indication to test for an "ESA," so I'm not sure if he's suspicious under the steroid module as opposed to a hematological red flag?

Nips and tatties wrote:

ex-runner wrote:

Heard it here first. Silas Kiplagat's own coach can't be sure if he is clean

And it's great that he admits it

ex-runner wrote:

3:27 is on the edge of impossible. 3:28 low is the clean limit.

Why do you say that?

I know, I know. I know who ran under 3:27. But imagine that you love running and you are extremely talented, and you run 3:30 in your first competition.

Three years later you run 3:26. Everyone calls you a doper.

Imagine you love running and run 3:20. That argument means nothing. Maybe some talent will come along and prove me incorrect, but I believe Canova when he says Kwemoi ran 3:28.8 clean, I personally believe that Cram was clean running 3:29 and clearly capable of 3:28.

I can't name any 3:27 runners that I think are clean. I'd stretch and say maybe 3:27.8 or something could be possible by the right individual, but 3:26 times no way.

Just think, if 3:28 flat is the clean limit, running 3:26 is stupendously quicker. Watch Monaco 2015 (?) and see the gap between Kiprop in 3:26.6 and the field in 3:28.5. It's something else.

I'll admit that I did believe that the physiology of Kiprop was so different from his competitors, that like Bolt, I accepted it as an explanation as to why he was so much better. However it was just dope. I don't believe 3:26 is possible clean.

As for El G, I'd almost believe his 3:26 if he didn't also run a 4:43 2000m and a 7:23 3000m. That crosses the line for me. No human can cleanly pass a mile in 3:49 and run a 54/55 last lap. Nobody today could even dream of it.

B.S , it is dope , pure and simple .

it just defies logic , wake up said in nicest way possible

steve cram was a doper exactly like others at time ,same way , steroids .

how long can you pick and choose certain athletes like so .

dont try to rationalise the logic of certain posters .

if you could run this time then bla , bla .

AND IN REPLY

to a certian coach , the problem is very evident

,go find a highly reflective surface .

the con is in .