Timothy Cheruiyot runs 3:29 FTW in Paris!!

You're not capable of using facts or engaging in rational argument. You're purposefully distorting my arguments. I never said that blood doping only took place in Italy. I've given you the reasons as to why Aouita MOVING to Italy and enlisting Italian doctors and coaches and transforming his results overnight is not comparable to somebody going to Italy to train f or a few weeks.

I've also never said that ALL Kenyans cheat and ALL white athletes are clean. I think that, sadly, all Kenyan performances are suspect at this stage, and I don't believe either Coe, Cram, or Ovett doped although I'd be (painfully) willing to change my mind if any evidence came to light.

If only fast twitch glute muscles were brain cells, I'm sure we wouldn't be having this conversation.

You defend Aouita a guy who told athletes to take peds, had a Belgian doctor (his Italian doctors apparently weren't enough) who was busted for supplying numerous runners and cyclists with peds, and transformed his career at nearly 25 by moving to Italy from the South of France. You accuse Seb Coe of being a drug cheat (although excuse yourself by claiming you're only doing so to get back at me), but this should surprise nobody as you claim 'everybody takes peds' because it's' humana nature.

The most disturbing thing of all, is you also claim to be a retired sprinter who has competed at the UK championships.

Oh, and ex-runner.

It's coming home.

Deanouk wrote:

ex-runner wrote:

Never said half his races were in Italy. Show me where I did and I'll write a letter of apology to Lord Sebastian.

Everyone can see you are being pathetically pedantic.

You wrote, "Coe spent nearly half his time training or racing in Italy."

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=8893081&page=7

(Page 8 of this thread)

If he's spending nearly half his time (as an athlete!?) training or racing in Italy, that implies (nearly) half his races were in Italy.

I'm not being pedantic, I just don't like sloppy or exaggerated comments disguised as facts.

Yeah that is extremely pedantic.

A manner of speaking taken way out of context. That also does not say 'he ran half his races in Italy', does it. Where are your English skills? 'Training OR racing' clearly means a combination. He used to go and train in Italy that's the only point so get over it.

Believe me nobody cares about Coe's reputation. All my points are entirely valid, it's as easy to discredit Coe by writing out facts about him visiting Italy as it is to discredit Aouita by writing out facts about him going to Italy or Farah going to Ethiopia. If you don't see the similarity then you are asinine.

And Coe says in his book he probably picked up toxoplasmosis in Rome from cats. He could have also caught it from non-sterile equipment being used on him by a doctor out there.

I personally don't care. I don't even think Coe was doping because I don't subscribe to the same idiotic fallacies that most posters here subscribe to. These small facts such as 'they doped in Italy and AOUITA went to Italy!!!' are extremely thin tales with no substance. Hopefully I've demonstrated that to you.

Coevett: EPO and blood doping might have the same effect, but as Subway mentioned, unless you were living in Italy (hello Chaouita) with easy access to blood labs, it's unlikely you would be able to produce performances like the Brits did all year round.

You're memory is short.

Also I knew you'd doubt even a direct quote from Coe himself at some point. He uses the words 'lived' and 'months'. Not weeks. You telling me Coe didn't go to the doctor in Italy ever? Physiological testing was a part of his training regime.

Besides blood doping takes one day to do not weeks even. You just load up with some extra blood, takes half an hour. Could do it the day before a race even.

I'm not defending Aouita. I couldn't care whether he doped or not. I'm just showing you how your ridiculous logic can be used against your greatest heroes like Coe.

Farah goes to Ethiopia, many Brits also go to Ethiopia like Grice. Kenyans dope in Iten at the HATC, UKA operates Iten as one of it's two altitude training venues for it's athletes.

Farah is dodgy for being in Font Romeu and Jama Aden's bust happened just across the border in Spain apparently, all the Brits go to Font Romeu because that's the other UKA chosen high altitude camp.

You want it to be that all Kenyans dope in an era of shaky drug testing but no Brits doped in an era of shaky drug testing.

You also want Aouita to have doped because he lived in Italy but Coe didn't dope when he lived in Italy.

You want Farah and the Kenyans to be doping in Iten, but none of the other Brits that go to Iten dope.

I think the word is hypocrisy. All these facts are weak, but when you use them against who you want to use them against you suddenly think they are gold.

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

Observantt wrote:

John Ngugi were self coached.

Ha, ha, ha, he was banned for refusing an OOC drug test. What did the Olympic Champion have to hide?

The ban was lifted when Ngugi proved his innocence. Try to keep up.

Also Ngugi was basically retired by 1993 which is why he did not understand why testers showed up at his farm unannounced.

Coevett wrote:

Noble savage excuse again. Yeah, this explains why West Africans near dominate football in Europe, produce world class boxers, and even a homeless Senegalian managed to recently fight for the UFC heavyweight title (one of the most technical sports in the world, being a combination of multiple martial arts). Chris Froome was also Kenyan born, went to school with black Kenyans, single working class mother, ends up multiple Tour De France champion (obviously achieved the traditional Kenyan way).

West Africans dominate football in Europe? Which west Africans are these you speak of?

No African team even made it out of the 1st round of the world cup. No African was among the 25 nominated for world player of the year.

Are you just being deliberately clownish or what?

And the idea that Chris Froome went to school with black Kenyans is either misleading or childishly ignorant. Froome when to Banda school in Nairobi which is an exclusive school for European expats. Then at age 14 he went to a school in South Africa. So stop misleading everyone.

And Kenya has produced far more world class sportsmen than senegal outside of running. So its an epic fail on your part again.

Don't you get tired of exposing your ignorance and lies on this forum?

Ex-runner is defending Aouita? Lol...that's crazy. I'm not going to pay attention to him anymore - he's gone backwards on that one.

At this point you should just leave the sport. You are so focused on your Kenyan doping thoughts that you cannot appreciate other stuff. Nothings gonna change from the current state. Kenyans will continue to be the major force in distance running, with or without drugs. Just stop.

Never defended Aouita. Not even for a second.

Stop wrote:

At this point you should just leave the sport. You are so focused on your Kenyan doping thoughts that you cannot appreciate other stuff. Nothings gonna change from the current state. Kenyans will continue to be the major force in distance running, with or without drugs. Just stop.

Lol, yet ex-runner has admitted being a British championship runner and doper, and you think I should 'leave the sport' rather than him.

Kenya will continue to dominate to an extent until such time as they finally get suspended, but with increasingly regular busts, only a few hardcore SJW doping apologists here like you will continue to take athletics seriously anymore.

Coevett wrote:

Stop wrote:

At this point you should just leave the sport. You are so focused on your Kenyan doping thoughts that you cannot appreciate other stuff. Nothings gonna change from the current state. Kenyans will continue to be the major force in distance running, with or without drugs. Just stop.

Lol, yet ex-runner has admitted being a British championship runner and doper, and you think I should 'leave the sport' rather than him.

Kenya will continue to dominate to an extent until such time as they finally get suspended, but with increasingly regular busts, only a few hardcore SJW doping apologists here like you will continue to take athletics seriously anymore.

Clearly you also take athletics seriously considering how much time you spend on letsrun. Albeit mostly posting pseudo-logic.

By the way Kenya has literally hundreds of world class runners each year. Every event from the 800m to the road races has at least 7-10 Kenyans in the top 20. This means only a very small percentage of Kenyans are being busted.

The top two 800m runners this year are Kenyans based in the US so they are exposed to the same testing regime as Americans and they still perform well. That in itself shoots down your thesis.

Coevett wrote:

Stop wrote:

At this point you should just leave the sport. You are so focused on your Kenyan doping thoughts that you cannot appreciate other stuff. Nothings gonna change from the current state. Kenyans will continue to be the major force in distance running, with or without drugs. Just stop.

Lol, yet ex-runner has admitted being a British championship runner and doper, and you think I should 'leave the sport' rather than him.

Kenya will continue to dominate to an extent until such time as they finally get suspended, but with increasingly regular busts, only a few hardcore SJW doping apologists here like you will continue to take athletics seriously anymore.

Coevett, making up his own reality since 2018.

2018?

ex-runner wrote:

Coevett wrote:

Lol, yet ex-runner has admitted being a British championship runner and doper, and you think I should 'leave the sport' rather than him.

Kenya will continue to dominate to an extent until such time as they finally get suspended, but with increasingly regular busts, only a few hardcore SJW doping apologists here like you will continue to take athletics seriously anymore.

Coevett, making up his own reality since 2018.

Err...yeah I take athletics seriously you imbecile. I just can't take Kenyan performances seriously anymore and if you stepped outside your own little bubble you'd see that even Kenyans don't take Kenyan performances seriously anymore.

It's incredible that any Kenyans are busted giving the shocking anti-doping standards that came to light in the Kiprop case.

The Kenyans that 'perform well in the USA' were bought by American colleges, might well be age cheats, and might well have doped since puberty. The fact that 3 or 4 Kenyans moved to the USA at '18' and outperform the local kids doesn't disprove that most Kenyan runners are doping.

Look at you making a complete arse of yourself. You said in your previous statement that only hardcore SJWs take athletics seriously anymore. So you are either a hardcore SJW or you have the brain of an infant because you cannot even remember what you posted moments ago.

The fact that Kenyans are age cheats does not change the fact that they are the top runners in the world. Your inability to think logically is astounding. And the way you keep shifting goal-posts when cornered in an argument is just comical.

Your points are not all valid, because they were distorted and exaggerated from the outset in order to try and make a comparison that wasn’t there.

Aouita moved to Italy, based himself there, lived there for several years, trained there with an Italian club and ran a lot of races there. This move did coincide with improved performances on the track, but I have never cited this as evidence of Aouita getting drugs there or being seen by Italian Doctors.

Coe raced there a dozen times in a dozen years, lived there once, for 3 months in the build up to the 1980 Games, but did not train there regularly as you implied. Coe had already broken 3 WR’s before his long stay in Rome early 1980. I think Renato Canova has mentioned that Coe went to train at altitude in Italy later in his career as well.

His most regular training camp abroad, however, was in the Macolin area of Switzerland. Coe spent the vast majority of his time training in the UK, unlike Cram and Ovett, who would regularly leave the UK for a couple of months and go to Australia and Colorado.

And no, it is not the same as Farah regularly living for long periods at African altitude camps throughout his career. The comparison you give is a poor one.

There is no evidence or documentation that Coe visited any doctors in Italy, as you suggest. That is purely your speculation.

He did undertake regular (yearly) physiological treadmill testing, which were either carried out at Loughborough University or by Dr David Martin in the States.

In addition, blood doping was banned in 1985, pushed along by a paper published by Coe, calling for it to be made illegal. This did not represent the end of the British dominance in the middle distances, as you have also incorrectly claimed as if it were a fact, although athletes do tend to decline naturally as they hit 30! Britain continued to win medals over 8 and/ or 15 in the 86 Commonwealth, 86 Europeans, 87 Worlds, 88 Olympics, 89 World Cup and 1990 Europeans.

Thanks for clearing that up Deanouk. Sorry to have to say this but, I've come to the conclusion 'ex-runner' is an idiot.

blood doping might have been acknowledged by then

but years from testing for it .

do you think they are going to put stop to whole middle distance project in britain

when only half way through it .

what do you think doing in italy in first place and promoting there sportswear

learning the ropes of blood doping .

1.

i dont think you are grasping what saying with

disappearance of elite in distance athletes in anglo- american sphere from 90's to mid , late 2000's .

just doesnt make sense and then comes along galen .

the fact is they were actively not looking for any and not willing to dope or push any for that matter

and then with ones outside power structure like Dieter Baumann who doped , that could get very close to top .

and then could easily take him down with failed test if want like paul edwards case .

even discouraged the spanish who had the dope ,as stuck mainly to the middle .

so many galen's out there if were backed athletes and doped accordingly , not how structure was and still is .

2.

ALBERTO SALAZAR should be given the utmost respect in the states .

the fight had against the power structure to guide , push , dope , galen to top

knowing the script . and dont like to see any athletes outside of it .

saying that must of had some backers to get with nike ,just not the main ones and let it pass , maybe his family name , who knowes or had been so long since any athlete of his type at top , let one example into mix . to show how easily done .

and for people that praise the likes of dopers then and know , pushed athletes , bernard lagat .

you need head examined , the damage he and army guys are going for local scene there for future .

obviously have the backing of top and doped from same source too , absolute mockery .

no agenda , script , power structure at all now ..........

took brave stubborn driven men like salazar to confront them and all gets is ridicule here .

he was always in your corner fighting the fight , just to stupid to see , yes doped but no other way , way the system is .

3.

and another example of how ,could be made to fail a test , was ben johnson and

then went so far as to push other canadian sprinters at same time to spite him .

i give you case of John teeters in sprint in states , was 10 second flat with the speed peptide year two ago ,

and if looking for his type of athlete , strong androgens could of found his way to him like many at moment

and be a contender at nationals .

but that is not part of script in sprint in america , so in way largely shut out of it .

or

the curious case of jeremy wariner , chronically doped but allowed for what ever reason

his coach was very much part of set up , ,maybe again his family name or been so long for his type at top .

but had to be have blessing and be managed by michael johnson for whatever reason again .

not a great example but has rhyme . dont think seeing something that not there .

yes had talent but point is if never met choosen or type of athlete want for structure then let ,to go alone

and burn up fast , or fail test etc .

Sorry to have to say this but,... wrote:

Thanks for clearing that up Deanouk. Sorry to have to say this but, I've come to the conclusion 'ex-runner' is an idiot.

It has to be said, is 'ex-runner' the child of 'Rekrunner' and 'Ventolin?'