Jim Walmsley/Western States has gotten more posts than all USA threads combined. Brojos remain silent.

rojo wrote:

But the event I'd like to sponsor is a top pro like Kipchoge in an ultra. I'd really like to see Walmsey vs Kipchoge at 100 miles on one week's notice.

I can't wrap my head around the constant need to compare Walmsley to the absolute top tier marathon guys all the time. I mean, unless the terrain was sufficiently technical to cater to Walmsley's specific training, of course Kipchoge would beat him, quite simply because Kipchoge the the best distance runner in human history. That doesn't mean American running fans can't watch one of America's most dominant runners continue to dominate his chosen sport.

And don't pretend you're not being disrespectful of "this Walmsey guy" when you misspelled his name (which is spelled correctly right there in the thread title for you) three times right after humblebragging about going to Princeton.

fatbody wrote:

of course Kipchoge would beat him, quite simply because Kipchoge the the best distance runner in human history. That doesn't mean American running fans can't watch one of America's most dominant runners continue to dominate his chosen sport.

And don't pretend you're not being disrespectful of "this Walmsey guy" when you misspelled his name (which is spelled correctly right there in the thread title for you) three times right after humblebragging about going to Princeton.

I like to think that Kipchoge would destroy him as well but we don't know. Just as a half marathon and marathon aren't remotely the same thing, I imagine the same is true but more so for the marathon and 100 milers.

Thanks to you and Soprano for the well-thought out responses. Honestly, I’m not mad at you guys, just trying to see if the “silence” was intentional. I am glad to see that it wasn’t quite as silent as I thought and that it was not purposefully ignored.

GBohannon wrote:

helpfulhands wrote:

Nah. There will be better fluff pieces.

I hope you’re right. In 2016, it was Barnicle. Don’t get me wrong - pot rules, but Walmsley seems to generate more “buzz”. (See what I did there?)

Get your popcorn ready, Barnicle making a 2020 comeback..

You left a couple key parts out of the story: He was discharged from the Air Force for cheating. It was not honorable. He was always a very talented runner as a FL finalist in high school (but so was his fellow Cowboy Tim Freriks too). Split 4:01 in the 1600m, 4:04 for the mile and 8:10ish for 3km. Also the NCAA steeple final qualifier. For reference ultra runner Max King ran a faster 8:40 in the steeple in university and started ultras much earlier with a vast amount mountain running experience. But Jim was always better at shorter distance events and better on the track than xc. Walms is not the first sub 14:00 5km runner to do ultras. There is no new "track speed" that is unusual here. It appears his mile and 3km times show more of a mid distance bias and less of a naturally talented NCAA cross country and 10km track runner. He was over 29:00 for 10km and never much of a performer in XC. One would think he'd stick to the shorter distances that he was better at or at least move up to the half marathon on the roads first. He did put down a 1:08 half, but no road marathon time. When he started ultras he was quite unimpressive for 2 years though. 6:51 at Speedgoat getting beat by women in 2014. Only 5:56 at the JFK 50 mile for a win in 2014. Camille Herron was within 10 minutes of him at the IAAF 100km World Road Champs when he faded for team USA. A distant third behind Alex Nichols and Rob Krar at Moab Red Hot 55km in 2015 (3:54), 5th at the 2015 Lake Sonoma 50 in 6:41. 2016 he only suddenly caught fire though and shaved 41-minutes of his Lake Sonoma time for a new CR with a 6:00. He also jumped from a PB of 5:47 at The JFK50 miler in 2015 to shattering Max King's course record and running 5:21. The rest is history. Despite some inevitable stomach issues at those first few 100 milers he is now unstoppable. Others that have moved up from the track were quite good at ultras from the start. Many ran road marathons first. He made a sudden jump in 2016 only. That is when he started shattering records. The media attention and admiration in ultra running can feed the ego of a newfound star. He can really make bank now.

Jurek who barely broke 2:40 in a thon would regularly school 2:15 thoners over 100 miles.

It’s a a different physiological beast. It’s like comparing an 800m specialist to a 10k specialist. They both involve distance running but are two very different athletes. The 100 type distance is more about efficieny, bodies response to extreme glycogen depletion, and mental fortitude.

I guarantee you even if Kipchoge and Rupp trained for western state they would still lose Walmsley.

The way it’s trending within ten years ultras will be more popular than track and field and marathons. You heard it here first

Gonna lay the truth down wrote:

Jurek who barely broke 2:40 in a thon would regularly school 2:15 thoners over 100 miles.

It’s a a different physiological beast. It’s like comparing an 800m specialist to a 10k specialist. They both involve distance running but are two very different athletes. The 100 type distance is more about efficieny, bodies response to extreme glycogen depletion, and mental fortitude.

I guarantee you even if Kipchoge and Rupp trained for western state they would still lose Walmsley.

I'm not guaranteeing that. I'm a big Walsmley fan (as I am of Rupp and Kipchoge), but depending on the length of time they had to train for WS, they COULD knockoff Walmsley. They'd have to learn a lot more about pacing, climbing, technical terrain, nutrition (caloric intake) on the run and just get their overall endurance up. In 6 months, no chance they knockoff Walsmley. In 2 years? Maybe.

Prophet dude wrote:

The way it’s trending within ten years ultras will be more popular than track and field and marathons. You heard it here first

Yes because in the next 10 years our society will move away from the instant gratification period we're going through.

Gonna lay the truth down wrote:

Jurek who barely broke 2:40 in a thon would regularly school 2:15 thoners over 100 miles.

It’s a a different physiological beast. It’s like comparing an 800m specialist to a 10k specialist. They both involve distance running but are two very different athletes. The 100 type distance is more about efficieny, bodies response to extreme glycogen depletion, and mental fortitude.

I guarantee you even if Kipchoge and Rupp trained for western state they would still lose Walmsley.

Is there someone out there paying ultra fans to make really stupid statements like this? It is amazing how naiive you guys are.

Kipochoge would not only beat Walmsley, he would crush him. The difference between a marathon and 100 miler is similar to the difference in the 10K and marathon. Walmsley is considered good because he is running against a bunch of nobodies. Let me know when a sub 2:05 guy runs an ultra in their prime, then we can talk.

You people are delusional.

Kipchoge or Rupp would quit long before they made it to the 100 mile mark. Neither of them have ever ran even 50 miles. They might have a 30 minute lead at the 50 mile mark but they would still blow up and DNF.

Speed isn’t what you need when you have a partially torn quad at mile 68.

But Jim W. is/was more of a speed oriented short distance track runner. Faster than Max King at the mile. Very similar in 5km times to Hayden Hawk. Not as good at the 10km. So why would he suddenly become so good at 100 mile ultras? He wasn't even very good at 50-miles and 100km in all of 2014 and 2015. It's not like he even stepped up and ran a competitive road marathon. Instead he ran a 1:08 half marathon out of college. Guys that naturally talented should be able to do that off of almost zero training. Even his 5km was much better than his 10km or cross country performances. Something major happened with his performances starting only in 2016. Look at his past ultra performances and look at where he is now. Must be the altitude training in Flag and the big canyon days, eh?

Lolololol wrote:

You people are delusional.

Kipchoge or Rupp would quit long before they made it to the 100 mile mark. Neither of them have ever ran even 50 miles. They might have a 30 minute lead at the 50 mile mark but they would still blow up and DNF.

Speed isn’t what you need when you have a partially torn quad at mile 68.

If there was a $5 million bounty on winning Western States in three years and breaking 12:30, someone like Kipchoge would do it with the time to readjust to training for that distance and terrain. Africans are better cross country + trail runners than Americans. They would have time to interview, shower, eat dinner and bang your Mom by the time Walmsley crossed the line.

Gonna lay the truth down wrote:

Jurek who barely broke 2:40 in a thon would regularly school 2:15 thoners over 100 miles.

It’s a a different physiological beast. It’s like comparing an 800m specialist to a 10k specialist. They both involve distance running but are two very different athletes. The 100 type distance is more about efficieny, bodies response to extreme glycogen depletion, and mental fortitude.

I guarantee you even if Kipchoge and Rupp trained for western state they would still lose Walmsley.

This thread is dumb.

Very few people care about competitive track or field or marathons. Very few people are impressed by Kipchoge, Rupp, Michael Norman or would care to watch or read about them. Thats why a small crappy site like letsrun is almost the only regular media outlet and meets are hard to sell out, and aren't viewed much on tv.

Even fewer people care about ultra/trail running and even fewer people are impressed by those that compete/win them.

This thread is a handful of weirdos complaining that they aren't getting enough respect or coverage from a larger (but still a very small) group of weirdos.

treadmill wrote:

But Jim W. is/was more of a speed oriented short distance track runner. Faster than Max King at the mile. Very similar in 5km times to Hayden Hawk. Not as good at the 10km.

So why would he suddenly become so good at 100 mile ultras? He wasn't even very good at 50-miles and 100km in all of 2014 and 2015. It's not like he even stepped up and ran a competitive road marathon. Instead he ran a 1:08 half marathon out of college. Guys that naturally talented should be able to do that off of almost zero training. Even his 5km was much better than his 10km or cross country performances.

Something major happened with his performances starting only in 2016. Look at his past ultra performances and look at where he is now. Must be the altitude training in Flag and the big canyon days, eh?

Don't be a moran. You can't say he was a speed oriented short distance track runner who wasn't as good at the 10,000. It's rare that a college runner gets a chance to max out their performances equally in all their potential events. Times are not as good in some event not because of ability, but because of focus. Also, few college races are perfect time trials, and some runners never get into a perfectly paced

Ackley's find of that Flotrack video of Jim's PR race is case in point. He ran 13:52. But any track fan that has seen that video would know that 13:52 wasn't even close to his ceiling on that day. The race was paced at 14:teens. He ran more than half the race in lane two. He really looked like a 13:30 runner among chumps (but the chumps were good, including future Rio Olympic marathon 6th placer Jared Ward). He finished in 2:02. Last 1K in 2:35, which is 12:55 pace. He made the Flotrack commentator, partway into his finish surge go, "OH MY GOD", seeing him continue to pull away when he was expecting the chasers to start closing. If he had been in a fast paced 10,000 in that shape, his 10,000 PR would have been closer to 28:00 than 29:00.

As for his slow start in ultras, you have proven you are a moran time and time again in these threads by choosing to believe that training doesn't matter. Check his strava in his first couple years of doing ultras (as well as interviews about that time). He wasn't consistent in logging then, but what is there is like half biking. The running training he did back then was hobby joggerish, less than a masters hobby jogger like me. Compare that to his training when he broke out and now.

ROJO, ultras got a good one. Please watch this. If you don't have time for the whole video, start about 10:00 in:

fatbody wrote:

Bozo the Clown wants his Altras back wrote:

Rupp would gap a trail field so bad in the early stages that he’d probably catch the race support would wonder how he cut the course(?)

Talk it up. $$$

Surely an elite distance runner will answer the call...

Ala Mayweather vs the mma bum who thought he could box.

I don't think you're making the point you're trying to make here. You're saying Rupp could try a different but similar sport (ultramarathons) and demolish the competition. To prove you're point, you bring up the example of an athlete who tried a different but similar sport and failed miserably. Obviously Mayweather beat McGregor at boxing, just like McGregor would kill Mayweather at MMA. Do you see how this disproves your point if anything?

Yeah, this is a better example. Bridget Franek, with virtually no experience in the event, destroyed the field in the warrior dash championship. I wonder how much faster Emma Coburn would have run.

come to reality wrote:

This thread is dumb.

Very few people care about competitive track or field or marathons. Very few people are impressed by Kipchoge, Rupp, Michael Norman or would care to watch or read about them. Thats why a small crappy site like letsrun is almost the only regular media outlet and meets are hard to sell out, and aren't viewed much on tv.

Even fewer people care about ultra/trail running and even fewer people are impressed by those that compete/win them.

This thread is a handful of weirdos complaining that they aren't getting enough respect or coverage from a larger (but still a very small) group of weirdos.

Excellent summary!

Gonna lay the truth down wrote:

even if Kipchoge and Rupp trained for Western States they would still lose to Walmsley.

Very few pros are able to transition successful from the 5k to marathon, and going to 4 times the distance of a marathon at Western States, plus the many technical challenges is much more difficult than going from a 5k to the marathon.

I agree with this `' wrote:

Gonna lay the truth down wrote:

even if Kipchoge and Rupp trained for Western States they would still lose to Walmsley.

Very few pros are able to transition successful from the 5k to marathon...

Maybe you should take a look at the all time 5K list and say that with a straight face: