Gaining weight while running high mileage....WTF am I supposed to eat?!?!?

Tyrone ReXXXing wrote:

And , no, you don't gain weight when starving yourself because your body is "holding on to calories". The only explanation there would be: if while cutting calories you reduced your activity levels even more than you were cutting calories ).

It's not that your activities change. The amount of calories your body is using to do your normal activities is what changes.

Some people overshoot their diets. Putting aside all this myth-busting about starvation mode or holding on to calories or whatever, it's just a plain fact that many athletes have had better success losing weight by increasing calories. You can't just cut more and more and the more you cut, the more your body is like "oh no problem I'll use this fat for energy instead and everything else will remain unaffected". No, it's always possible to cut too much. For some athletes it's very easy to inadvertently do so.

This is a common story: "I started eating less, I was hungry all the time, tired all the time, performance was bad but I was still completing all my workouts, and I still wasn't losing weight. Then I spoke with a nutritionist who got me to eat more calories and I felt better and performed better and started losing weight."

So putting aside the scientific explanation for that, can we at least all acknowledge that that is something that happens? If so, then it's up to us to judge if that's the situation OP might be in. I think it's more likely than not, given what he's told us. Regardless, creating a bigger deficit or running more junk mileage is such a huge health risk, just begging for injury or overtraining. The safe choice is to stop cutting calories, get back to feeling and performing well, and then try again with a more conservative cut. Strength training and higher intensity running and smarter food choices help too.

HahaRiiiiiiight wrote:

gregmacd wrote:

I gotta disagree with the above advice to "always opt for full fat organic dairy - whole milk and full fat yogurt". The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services states "If you are trying to lose weight, consider eating small amounts of food with healthy fats, such as avocados, olives, or nuts. You also could replace whole-fat cheese or milk with lower-fat versions."

https://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/weight-management/myths-nutrition-physical-activity

You just quoted the US Department of Health and Human Services for nutrition advice - this is literally the LAST place you should be looking. Have you seen the food pyramid they put out? The US Gov't is largely responsible for the obesity epidemic in this country - by pushing a high carb low fat diet. A good rule of thumb is to do the exact opposite of what they will tell you...

Came here to post this. The US Department of Heath is garbage. After all this came out:

It might not be the best to listen to what the government says is healthy or not. Switching to lower fat versions is the same as picking diet soda over regular. Sure it saves calories, but there's some sh!t in there that humans don't need to be consuming

Well, your activity level could change, i.e., decrease (especially if you had become extremely tired from a period of overtraining). That would be a reasonable explanation for "I cut calories but gained weight", right? Certainly more reasonable than: I cut calories, activity levels stayed the same, but....I magically gained weight because.....my metabolism slowed so much, something, something, something.

Why put aside busting pseudo-scientific myths?? What could possibly be wrong with that?

And no, it's not a " plain fact that many athletes have had better success losing weight by increasing calories." (at least not directly or initially). Now yes, of course if you cut too much, you don't have enough energy to workout out hard, or be active, and you could end up decreasing workouts and overall activity levels, and so yes, your reduced calorie diet might "backfire". And yes, if one, at that point, starts to eat more (where he will in fact start to GAIN weight, not magically lose it), he might eventually be healthier, and stronger, start working out harder and longer, and overall be more active, and eventually lose weight because of that increased volume and intensity of activity. Yes, that can happen. But all those points in between are important to acknowledge. It's just plain silly to say: if you eat more you'll often lose weight, or the opposite: if you cut too many calories you are likely to start gaining weight. Both are simply not true in the large majority of cases, but when they are true, one should understand the reasons, and what else changed in the long term equation other than the calories consumed. Yeah, the details matter.

I don't think it's common, but when it does occur, once again, let's realize why. It's not because of some reverse metabolic actions where one gains weight by reducing calories or loses weight by increasing calories. Let's just be clear and not be misleading. I don't think that's being pedantic by a long shot.

Fruits and veggies will curb your hunger as well as meat. It’s more about density than it is about calories. You can eat 500 calories and be full w right food vs eating 1000 calories and still being hungry with another.

Generally speaking rice, pasta, etc though fine is very high in calories vs density. Still continue to include that stuff but make sure the majority of food is fruits/veggies and meats to make you full with a lower calorie count. Then pile on other stuff like healthy fats, rice, pasta, etc. Also make sure you are drinking water or other zero calorie drink like tea to keep your belly feeling full.

Generally speaking hunger comes from your stomach feeling empty or specific cravings based on nutrients your body needs. Calories could be a culprit but in our country and based on our culture that is much less likely.

Intermittent fasting is another good tool to use especially when targeting belly fat bc whenever insulin is spiking from food intake it inhibits specific hormones that target belly fat. We really don’t need as much food as our culture teaches us we do but we do need food that is rich in nutrients.

Typically I try to go a minimum of 14 hrs most days but some days I push closer to 20-22 hrs. I’ve noticed I actually feel much better as long as I’m eating plenty and getting a good balance of nutrients during my meals. If I feel like I need to eat I’ll go a day or 2 without fasting but as a general theme I try to fast most days bc of the benefits and how much better personally I feel.

What I mean is that you're literally doing the same activities and your body is using fewer calories to do them.

Because we don't know all the science so it's better if we just make observations. I'm not even sure that the scientists fully understand the science. There's a lot more to learn about the body. So putting aside scientific explanations as to why something happens, we can still look at what people have tried and how it turned out.

Look at this excerpt from Racing Weight:

You've also got people in this thread telling similar stories.

CICO is great for fat people to get less fat and for weightlifters to get lean. That has made it really popular on the internet because the internet is full of fat people and people whose only exercise is doing lifts at the gym. It's not so great for cardio/endurance athletes looking to get lean. Yes CICO is strictly true, thermodynamics and all that, but what people underestimate is how much "calories out" can change even though on the surface the activity level looks identical.

So I think that's where we're disagreeing. You think that changing 'calories in' causes a change in behavior which then changes 'calories out'. But I'm saying that people have observed otherwise. Behavior stays the same and 'calories out' drastically changes due to physiological effects of a too-big calorie deficit. I don't know the exact physiological mechanisms. Some people have tried to identify them in this thread and I think it doesn't matter if we can identify them or not.

If someone is running 80mpw and fairly lean and maintaining their weight by eating whatever diet comes natural to them then I wouldn't say they're equally likely to lose weight by eating more or by eating less. They'd gain weight if they started eating 200 calories more per day and they'd lose weight if they ate 200 fewer calories. But if you take that same person and you tell me that they wanted to get super lean so they started restricting calories and the result is that they are hungry all the time, running worse, and they haven't lost any weight, then it's obvious to me that they're cutting too much. It could be they're eating awful foods, but assuming healthy food choices and we're just talking about calories, then the first reasonable adjustment is to eat more, not less.

I wouldn't say t hey should eat more than they were originally, but more than they are now, so they end up at a reasonable deficit. With the right deficit, the body doesn't "notice" it and nothing changes physiologically except that 200 calories of energy now need to be pulled from fat stores every day. Of course, most people hope for doing the biggest cut they can so they lose fat ASAP, and that's why it's common for runners to get in a situation where eating more will help with their weight loss. Big cuts are easy when you're fat, but you may find they suddenly don't work anymore when trying to lose your final 5-10 pounds. So find the right amount to cut, be disciplined about it, and be patient.

Sorry, but that never happened. ("that" being: Goucher doubled her caloric intake, continued to train and be active on the same level as before, and then lost pounds of fat. Nope. The only way it happened: She doubled her caloric intake, and then increased exercise/overall activity levels by 2.5x. But that's not what you/"racing weight' are saying happened. )

Here, read this: it is in layman's terms, and there are more clear/better referenced explanations out there, but this should still be useful:

FYI: this is an area of research that has been looked at closely, in very controlled conditions. The results: People don't lose weight when increasing calories, or gain/not lose weight when reducing calories but keeping activity levels constant. Sorry, it doesn't happen.

Now if you, or Kara Goucher's nutritionist want to show me a well controlled study where it did happen, I am all ears/eyes. But until then: I'll take credible, rigorous, serious, well controlled scientific experiments over uncontrolled anecdotes.

I clicked on every single linked study in that article and every single one was for overweight or obese people. Like I said, and like the anecdote about Goucher, it's easy to drop tons of weight quickly with a big deficit when you are fat. The discussion in this thread is about losing the final 5-10 pounds of fat. People who are already well into "normal" BMI or "healthy weight" category, and want to get even leaner. It's different. I don't know why it's different but it is. Maybe not for everyone; I don't know. But for a lot of people it is.

Look for info on athletes who are doing 7+ hours of cardio per week and are trying to go from pretty lean to very lean. Anything else is not applicable. Fatter people and less active people are in very different situations.

I will say there are some other anecdotes in Racing Weight where it sounds like some athletes have done some big cuts and made them work. But there may be some other factors at play, like what kind of foods they eat and how much muscle mass they have and what kind of workouts they're doing and whether they're supplementing with strength training. The OP is in a different situation. Maybe with different training and foods he can do the deficit he is doing, but step one is to get back to feeling good and step two is to tweak his plan and make another attempt at it.

That's really a fascinating discussion about starvation mode, and if it is real or not. I've learned a lot in that regard.

Back to a point i am sure must have been touched upon somewhere in these 7 pages of responses, a bit of resistance training is very effective at burning calories, and it does so even well after the workout is over. This is proven and widely accepted amongst nutritionists and trainers. For that reason, i would consider adding in some resistance training if your goal is weight loss and burning fat.

As for my own experience, it absolutely confirms this, but with a caveat. Actually, what happens is that with the introduction of cross-training in the form of a little resistance training, i get a lot hungrier. I suppose i do eat a little more, but how can i not? And i get a lot more toned. Not big by any means, but not super lean like an elite runner. In terms we can all relate to, i look more like a triathlete or cyclist than a super lean runner.

Anyway, most trainers i've come across who have clients come in and want to start exercise to lose weight put them into a strength training resistance program in addition to a little cardio. The logic being that muscle burns fat more effectively than cardio does.

Bump. OP here. Situation has not improved. I'm up to 161 pounds and still hungry as f*ck. I'm eating about 4000 calories a day and still famished. My waist is now 34.5 inches and I've had to buy all new pants since I can't fit into my regular clothes anymore. According to the BMI chart at 5 foot 8 I'm only a few pounds away from being overweight, which is absurd considering I'm running 70 mpw.

I went to an endocrinologist to check for thyroid issues but my labs came back normal. I tried cutting carbs like some people suggested but I couldn't run worth a sh*t after I did that. I recently ran a 17 flat 5K, so about a minute off my PR from March, although it was 90 degrees and humid so that obviously slowed me down.

Guess I'm just ranting. I've already gotten over 100 responses on this thread so I'm not sure what else anyone can suggest for me. The main thing that's killing me is this f*cking hunger. Should I just keep eating if I'm still hungry? Even if it's gonna be like 4500-5000 calories a day? I've eaten ZERO junk food in the last month but I've gained about a pound a week. I'm eating 10+ servings of fruits and veggies a day. Lots of oats, rice, beans, chicken, tuna. All healthy stuff. Been eating healthy fats too like avocados, nuts, olive oil.

Are you gaining water weight?

Probably. If you are running in summer heat and humidity.

Are you training too hard?

Probably if you are hungry all the time on 4000 calories a day.

Sorry for chiming in a bit late to the discussion, but I really feel like I need to add my 2 cents. I think weight loss is a good thing for us runners.

I finally found something that works for my stubborn weight as a runner!

Fasting works too like some have said! But it's usually not something one is able to sustain long-term.

By far the best weight loss method I have ever tried is Dan Garners Eat Sleep Burn Method. I feel better than I have in years as a gamer, and I'm not even working out at the moment — I've just changed my eating habits.

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Newly registered. Apologies if this message goes to wrong place. Lots of advice given so far, but none has mentioned the following: Try ditching all fats, oils, and animal products. Eat left-over cold potatoes to stave off hunger pangs. Not too much, or you will be farting a lot. Continue with the veggies, and any fats that come with whole foods, but little to no derived fats or oils, like olive oil. If you eat beans and grains, nuts or seeds, and lightly steamed Italian kale or radish greens, you will be getting about 70g of protein and all the carbs and vegetable fats your body needs. That being said, I personally cheat by eating bread and pasta and wheat chex with Pearl soy milk. Anyway, I made a recent breakthrough on this system and dropped from 178 to 159 in the past 2.5 months. I'm 5-9.5.

My running is easier and I have no hunger issues. Sounds like your diet is pretty close, but probably too many sweet fruits, and the animal products or dairy are totally unnecessary.