Des Linden Running 2018 TCS New York City Marathon

Scorpion_runner wrote:

Fact King wrote:

Scorp - Let me educate you. Most marathoners make pennies to the penny. Absolute trash. They have contracts that with clauses that could get their pay cut by not finishing in Top 10 / Top 5 / Top whatever. Races like Berlin and London are risk to their financial stake. Additionally, these same contracts have major bonuses by making the podium where odds are significantly greater. It's not dodging competition. It's 101 percent a financial decision. And when you're training for an event that you may do just 2 a year, you don't f*&^ around with odds when it comes to the dollar.

Bull crap. Frank Shroter did Fukuoka 4 times, and KK did London 4 times. Top american runners have six figure contracts with their shoe sponsor that pay them well, and they get an appearance for the one national marathon that they do per year, so doing an international marathon per year as well would just be gravy on top. There is no financial hurt whatsoever with that. Now if you only care about getting paid, and getting over, then fine, that's the american running culture right there. And that is the reason why we will never be as good as the east africans.

So as a running nation we are not trying to push ourselves and compete against the best, and focus on running the high, fast races?

Nah, we are too busy focusing on delusional dreams of going for gold with only 1 year of distance running experience, and getting mind orgasms over doped up nike running shoes.

Scorpion_runner wrote:

zxcvzxcv wrote:

Hall didn't run a lot of marathons out of the country. Early on, he ran London twice in 2007 and 2008, plus he ran at the Olympics in Beijing in 2008 and in London at the Olympics in 2012, but it seems that those were his only foreign marathons in his pro career.

I'm saying hall went for it ...He went after the africans and didn't stay in his comfort zone. He went after them in Boston, London, where ever, and raced outside of america more than once.

You know damn well today's american runners are playing it safe!

Our only hope is Molly Huddle, because she likes to take it out hard, and she isn't afraid to run. I just hope she does at least 3 or 4 foreign races and really takes it to the east africans.

all of our runners are going to run new york and boston at the same damn time??.... No one is going to commit to berlin or london?

I'm heated.

Scorpion_runner wrote:

zxcvzxcv wrote:

Hall didn't run a lot of marathons out of the country. Early on, he ran London twice in 2007 and 2008, plus he ran at the Olympics in Beijing in 2008 and in London at the Olympics in 2012, but it seems that those were his only foreign marathons in his pro career.

I'm saying hall went for it ...He went after the africans and didn't stay in his comfort zone. He went after them in Boston, London, where ever, and raced outside of america more than once.

You know damn well today's american runners are playing it safe!

Our only hope is Molly Huddle, because she likes to take it out hard, and she isn't afraid to run. I just hope she does at least 3 or 4 foreign races and really takes it to the east africans.

all of our runners are going to run new york and boston at the same damn time??.... No one is going to commit to berlin or london?

I'm heated.

Cheese Head wrote:

Scorpion_runner wrote:

I'm saying hall went for it ...He went after the africans and didn't stay in his comfort zone. He went after them in Boston, London, where ever, and raced outside of america more than once.

You know damn well today's american runners are playing it safe!

Our only hope is Molly Huddle, because she likes to take it out hard, and she isn't afraid to run. I just hope she does at least 3 or 4 foreign races and really takes it to the east africans.

all of our runners are going to run new york and boston at the same damn time??.... No one is going to commit to berlin or london?

I'm heated.

No, they aren't playing it safe. "Most" who are going for it don't have full-time jobs. They need $$$ and are trying to figure out the best way to get it. If someone give Shalane $50,000 to race and prize money and someone else gives her $5000 and prize money, where's she going to go?

I live in the midwest. I was at a small 10k and who runs by me warming up, Tim Hacker. Why? There was $2,000 for 1st place and he drove in from Wisconsin the night before. He didn't drive that far for just a quick 1st place, it was the money.

Scorpion_runner wrote:

zxcvzxcv wrote:

Hall didn't run a lot of marathons out of the country. Early on, he ran London twice in 2007 and 2008, plus he ran at the Olympics in Beijing in 2008 and in London at the Olympics in 2012, but it seems that those were his only foreign marathons in his pro career.

I'm saying hall went for it ...He went after the africans and didn't stay in his comfort zone. He went after them in Boston, London, where ever, and raced outside of america more than once.

You know damn well today's american runners are playing it safe!

Our only hope is Molly Huddle, because she likes to take it out hard, and she isn't afraid to run. I just hope she does at least 3 or 4 foreign races and really takes it to the east africans.

all of our runners are going to run new york and boston at the same damn time??.... No one is going to commit to berlin or london?

I'm heated.

once again ... MONEY wrote:

Scorpion -

You still ignore the point about APPEARANCE FEES. Which race pays the most money. Now Shalane - as the NY Champion - probably would have been given one heck of an offer by London to show up and race. Same with Jordan Hasay. But I'm sure Boston paid big big bucks to get the top American women. Was it perhaps less than what London offered? Not sure. But, these women's overall brand value is worth a lot more with the top finish in Boston. Not necessarily about which race is easier to win - but rather - which top result gives them more publicity. Jordan Hasay was the talk of the running world with her third place debut finish in Boston. Who finished 3rd in London in 2017?

Now going to your stats about prior Americans running:

KK ran London in 2000 after he won Chicago in a Debut WR in 1998 and then set the actual WR in Chicago in 1999. The hilliest marathon that he ever ran with the Olympic Trials marathon in 2007. He ran the races that allowed him the fastest times and paid the most money (back then, Chicago had all kinds of $$$ bonuses for the fast times ... it used to be hundreds of thousands for a world record). And London - I'm sure paid him a lot more than Boston would have. Knowing KK, and more importantly, his ex-wife, $$$ up front drove everything. Also, KK broke down before Boston reappeared on the map, so to speak (arguably, Boston started becoming relevant again in 2005)

Ryan Hall had set the AR in the Half in 2007 and then followed that up with the debut in London. He was a HUGE name and frankly. The only name at the time. Because of Meb's injuries that fall (which resulted in about 2 years of being ignored), Hall was valued as the only significant American marathon threat to go 2:06 or faster. (we can get into a discussion about Ritz later....)

These past few years, Boston has made a hard push to get the top American runners to show up. They have valued that more than the African runners. London only cares about speed. Speed and world records (and apparently blowing up the whole darn thing by hiring incompetent pacers).

So looking at things now - yes, I would love to see Molly Huddle go after east African runners in London or Berlin. But I also hope that she cashes in first and gets as much money as she can. Shalane is almost at the retirement line. Desi isn't far behind her. Molly has only a handful of serious years left. Jordan will be the next rockstar if she can stay healthy.

On the Americans side - I wouldn't be surprised to see Galen make a run at London. I would more likely bet he gives Boston one more go (maybe there was a side deal so that he could run Prague) .... and then London in 2021. (Olympic trials in Atlanta are too close to either Boston or London)

Scorpion_runner wrote:

I'm saying hall went for it ...He went after the africans and didn't stay in his comfort zone. He went after them in Boston, London, where ever, and raced outside of america more than once.

You know damn well today's american runners are playing it safe!

Our only hope is Molly Huddle, because she likes to take it out hard, and she isn't afraid to run. I just hope she does at least 3 or 4 foreign races and really takes it to the east africans.

all of our runners are going to run new york and boston at the same damn time??.... No one is going to commit to berlin or london?

I'm heated.

Scorpion_runner wrote:

once again ... MONEY wrote:

Scorpion -

You still ignore the point about APPEARANCE FEES. Which race pays the most money. Now Shalane - as the NY Champion - probably would have been given one heck of an offer by London to show up and race. Same with Jordan Hasay. But I'm sure Boston paid big big bucks to get the top American women. Was it perhaps less than what London offered? Not sure. But, these women's overall brand value is worth a lot more with the top finish in Boston. Not necessarily about which race is easier to win - but rather - which top result gives them more publicity. Jordan Hasay was the talk of the running world with her third place debut finish in Boston. Who finished 3rd in London in 2017?

Now going to your stats about prior Americans running:

KK ran London in 2000 after he won Chicago in a Debut WR in 1998 and then set the actual WR in Chicago in 1999. The hilliest marathon that he ever ran with the Olympic Trials marathon in 2007. He ran the races that allowed him the fastest times and paid the most money (back then, Chicago had all kinds of $$$ bonuses for the fast times ... it used to be hundreds of thousands for a world record). And London - I'm sure paid him a lot more than Boston would have. Knowing KK, and more importantly, his ex-wife, $$$ up front drove everything. Also, KK broke down before Boston reappeared on the map, so to speak (arguably, Boston started becoming relevant again in 2005)

Ryan Hall had set the AR in the Half in 2007 and then followed that up with the debut in London. He was a HUGE name and frankly. The only name at the time. Because of Meb's injuries that fall (which resulted in about 2 years of being ignored), Hall was valued as the only significant American marathon threat to go 2:06 or faster. (we can get into a discussion about Ritz later....)

These past few years, Boston has made a hard push to get the top American runners to show up. They have valued that more than the African runners. London only cares about speed. Speed and world records (and apparently blowing up the whole darn thing by hiring incompetent pacers).

So looking at things now - yes, I would love to see Molly Huddle go after east African runners in London or Berlin. But I also hope that she cashes in first and gets as much money as she can. Shalane is almost at the retirement line. Desi isn't far behind her. Molly has only a handful of serious years left. Jordan will be the next rockstar if she can stay healthy.

On the Americans side - I wouldn't be surprised to see Galen make a run at London. I would more likely bet he gives Boston one more go (maybe there was a side deal so that he could run Prague) .... and then London in 2021. (Olympic trials in Atlanta are too close to either Boston or London)

Cool. I get it. Money. Btw, that was a nice , well written post.