HS coaches/fans, can you explain to me how you choose between US juniors and New Balance Nationals Outdoor?

ok scrub, you missed the point. It costs money, I felt like 600+ dollars was expensive for a backpack to run in emerging elite sections. As a coach, you set standards, raise the bar, keep the bar at a high level and the athletes compete at a high level. Lowering the bar and spending the parents money to run in the second division races lowers the competitive level.

why are you acting like the emerging elite races are not competitive?

you have a plethora of guys that can run 1:52, 4:12, and a team that can break 7:50?

The irony of running NB is that if you run in college, no one will care vs. if you competed at USATF Juniors. Even if it's "just for the backpack," wearing it around will be a slight step up from wearing your state championship sweatshirt.

Go run USATF juniors, the legit national championships.

Totally Evil Private Coach wrote:

Both meets are equal travel time for us and none of the kids know or care about USATF Juniors. I would have a revolt on my hands if I took them there instead of getting their backpacks at NBN. Also, while the top tier kids can get into Juniors, the mid level kids can't but can get into the emerging elite races or the slow seeded sections. So, the top tier kids want to be with their friends anyways. Juniors isn't an option.

If you have an athlete capable of making the Jr National team, you are doing that athlete a tremendous disservice by not first educating and presenting the Junior Nationals as an option. I would allow the athlete to decide, but I would encourage them to do the USATF meet. How does a NBON backpack compare with a trip to Finland and a ton of USA gear and the opportunity to represent your country?

Oh, come on, they will cherish the backpack for years..............

former hs coach wrote:

ok scrub, you missed the point. It costs money, I felt like 600+ dollars was expensive for a backpack to run in emerging elite sections. As a coach, you set standards, raise the bar, keep the bar at a high level and the athletes compete at a high level. Lowering the bar and spending the parents money to run in the second division races lowers the competitive level.

It is expensive but some of the poorest school districts in America routinely participate in the NBON meet. Unless you are coming from the west coast, it does not have to always be $600 per athlete. I use to rent (2) 12 passenger vans, put 4 kids in a room and eat dinners at Waffle House. The last time I did it that way, it was about $150 per athlete. This does not include the meet entry fee and spending money etc. Half the time the parents would come as well and get in on the deal. You have to remember that beyond the competition you are giving the kids an experience to reward them for working hard and having a great season. There are also some more practical reasons in that it is tremendously bonding for the kids...kids who care about each other will fight harder for each other. Also, there are lot of NIAAA and mid-major coaches at that meet who don't go after the T&FN top-10 athletes, but are interested in a kid who runs a 1:53 relay split.

The bottom line is, passionate and truly motivated coaches always find a way to get deserving kids to a meet, which can sometimes mean paying out of their own pocket.

We would tell our kids they can go to NBN on their own if they want, but if they aren't an all-stater (top 8 in the state) we aren't taking them. Their reward for their hard work is at the state finals.

Well, I think there are plenty of other ways to have your athletes bond (all of them) I took my entire XC team to an overnight Invite every year, fund raised for it. Pretty good experience, major invite and involved the entire team.

Taught my kids about good nutrition, would never take them or myself to a waffle house to save money, that would contradict everything we talked about all year.

Sorry, when they were good enough to place, we would go, gave them something to shoot for, everybody does NOT get a trophy. Earn it.

jeez, a big deal for this guy to do an overnight track meet. i feel sorry for you.

Almost every big meet gives away a backpack. I have coached several good athletes and by the end of the year they had 5 or six back packs. Most good kids could care less about back packs. If you are an elite runner you go to US Juniors to compete with the big dogs. If you get top 3 you can say you competed on a US national team I would rather put that on my resume than NON champ how about you?

coaches coach wrote:

Almost every big meet gives away a backpack. I have coached several good athletes and by the end of the year they had 5 or six back packs. Most good kids could care less about back packs. If you are an elite runner you go to US Juniors to compete with the big dogs. If you get top 3 you can say you competed on a US national team I would rather put that on my resume than NON champ how about you?

Representing U-S-A in Finland... Next question !

Sometimes people don’t want to have to extend their season into July when XC starts mid August...

I think the Emerging Elite events are great. Kids who may be "up and coming" undergrads (and even the occasional junior high stars, perhaps?) get their chances to experience competition for high placement, in a big stadium, and within a national championship meet. Such an opportunity to excel can end up being great motivation for a kid to work hard at attaining even higher goals. The philosophy behind the EE events really is sound.

Yeah, NBNO is much more of an East Coast event, but there are exceptions. The geography and financial factors, however, are real limiting factors. Ditto NBNI. However, each IS a national championship, so some events do end up having worthy participants from far away, like west of the Mississippi.

It's a shame that the US Juniors and NBNO are vying for the same talent this time around.

I ran in Nike Outdoor Nationals just over a decade ago my senior year of HS. While I ended up qualifying for both US Juniors and NON, I went with NON because it was a HS national championship that included relays while US juniors did not include relays. My HS 4x800 won our state championship by quite a large margin and were ranked top 10 in the US for HS 4x800's that year, so we wanted to run at nationals and see how we could do against better competition in that and also see how we could do in the 4xmile relay. I individually could have run in either meet, but decided to just do NON, because I only wanted to run the relays and didn't think it would be very fun to travel half way across the country by myself to run just one race. I ran my open event at NON's since we were already there, but my focus was on the relays. I was not fast enough to make the final in my individual event at either meet, so I have no regrets choosing the NON meet with the relays. I had a fun time with my teammates and it was a highlight of my HS career. Also, the backpack we got was a nice Nike one with pockets on the sides to put shoes in, so I still use the backpack today 11 years post HS on occasion just because it works well for carrying sporting equipment and isn't like any of my other back packs. I guess I got a good return on investment with the backpack. If I was individually more elite though and good enough to make the final or have a shot at the US junior team, then I may have chosen US juniors instead. Another issue was our state meet was after the entry deadlines, so if you pop a big time at state you might have already missed the deadline to qualify for these meets. NON/NBN just wants your money though, so they'll accept late entry times.

A Coaches Coach wrote:

I would always choose US Juniors over NBNO. It usually harder to qualiyfy for most events and teaches kids to go through rounds helping them to get to the next stage in development. NBNO is for kids that just want to run time trials or relay races US Juniors is for kids who want to compete and believe they can compete on the next stage .

Whatever dude.

Distance or mid d in summer months is retarded for the best HS runners. Who gives a rats arse about Jr Nats in late June,then beyond. Either college bound, or XC serious kids are done.

This year:

Brooks>FestivalofMiles>Adidas>NBNO>Jrs

"Blah, blah, ...want to compete next stage, blah, blah. Blah!"

nb is for the kids

Brooks is a gimmick yes there are some of the best kids there, but their are no qualifying standards so some of the kids in the races don't belong. All these marketing events come and go, but US Juniors is here to stay it's an actual national championship just not a high school national championship.