• mcguck
      registered
      • Testosterone Cypionate doesn't work for Runners. 6/13/2018 8:11AM
      • mcguck
        registered
      • I am genetically predisposed to low testosterone made worse by endurance sports. At one point I had more estrogen than testosterone in my system. A doctor suggested I quit running and cycling as it was obvious the high mileage running and biking was destroying my T. Finally was convinced to see a urologist by a friend who said Testosterone would save me. I got put on Testosterone Cypionate 200mg a week. That first week felt great, I felt 15 again in all ways, went and ran a half marathon and felt like I could run so much faster. The second and third week the side effects kicked in, my heart rate shot up due to increase in red blood cells. I had to go and give emergency blood to get my hematocrit down. I started to gain weight as I started to retain water and my calves would get so pumped I couldn't finish a run. After much research, I found one post that suggested a proper dosage for runners. 100mg a week broke up into multiple shots a week. Things have gotten better but I still can't get the weight down and a run has become a chore. Seems to be the lower amount of test allows for running but doesn't do much for the other issues. It seems to me that I have to either chase after wanting to run and stay on low doses or not run and feel good on a higher dose. All I know is that if one was to dope testosterone is not the drug a runner would want to use, maybe a sprinter but surely not a marathoner.

        Just my experience
    • willywhanka
      • RE: Testosterone Cypionate doesn't work for Runners. 6/13/2018 9:03AM - in reply to mcguck
      • willywhanka
      • 200mg per week is a lot especially for an endurance athlete. You need to do 3/4 to 1/2 that every 7-10 days.

        Or you could keep the 200mg week and hit the gym like a beast.
    • mcguck
      registered
      • RE: Testosterone Cypionate doesn't work for Runners. 6/13/2018 9:43AM - in reply to willywhanka
      • mcguck
        registered
      • 80mg to 100mg seems to be the top end of testosterone per week without side effects. That being said you lose the other benefits of testosterone at that dosage such as a sense of well being, energy and desire and rock hard erections every day. My point in this is that its give or take but if anyone is thinking testosterone as a performance enhancer in running is silly.
    • willywhanka
      • RE: Testosterone Cypionate doesn't work for Runners. 6/13/2018 9:48AM - in reply to mcguck
      • willywhanka
      • And you don't think the 80-100mg is going to give you a benefit??? U crazy man.

        You'll recover MUCH faster than if you weren't taking it and you'll shed some fat. It's a DRUG, of course taking too much of any drug isn't going to keep giving the same benefits. Dosage is very very very important.

        4 aspirin helps with a headache or muscle soreness, take the whole bottle and you get sent to the hospital. See how that works?
    • mcguck
      registered
      • RE: Testosterone Cypionate doesn't work for Runners. 6/13/2018 10:02AM - in reply to willywhanka
      • mcguck
        registered
      • That is where you are incorrect, the dosage taken is what sets the base level and the free levels. Take to little and you still have low T and reap none of the benefits. I don't recover any faster than I used too and in fact, at the lower dosage, there is no benefit other than a steady lower level. So yes I don't get wiped out at the end of a season and get depressed but I also as stated am not losing weight because it causes 5-10 pounds of water retention and I am on a clean eating low-calorie diet. More studies are coming out showing testosterone only works in high dosages that have zero benefits for cyclists and runners.
    • dwightarm
      • RE: Testosterone Cypionate doesn't work for Runners. 6/13/2018 10:24AM - in reply to mcguck
      • dwightarm
      • I took test e (similar to test c) two years ago, 500 a week, for 10 weeks.

        Running long distance was basically impossible. Fast, 3 miles was easier than slow 5 miles. I couldn't resume running over 3 or 4 miles until a few weeks after I had finished my cycle.

        Hill repeats were easier but even then, they were a chore.

        Even though men outperform women in long distance, in my personal experience? Gotta say testosterone is the enemy of endurance.

        Maybe switch to shorter distances?
    • Testie
      • RE: Testosterone Cypionate doesn't work for Runners. 6/13/2018 11:19AM - in reply to mcguck
      • Testie
      • Agree with mcguck here. I was a long term test user. I think it was detrimental to my running. I was on cycles anywhere from 200 mg to 400 mg a week. Test thickens the blood considerably and increases red blood cells a ton. This can cause a number of heart issues and simply cannot be good for endurance athletes.

        Also, taking 80-100 mg is not going to do much for you except give you side effects. If you have low testosterone levels, 80-100 mg isn't going to raise your levels enough to get any benefits from the hormone.

        I've been off of test for around 3 months now and my times have improved considerably.
    • mcguck
      registered
      • RE: Testosterone Cypionate doesn't work for Runners. 6/13/2018 11:22AM - in reply to dwightarm
      • mcguck
        registered
      • That's the crossroad I am at, take just enough to keep my levels up and run or quit running and take the dosage needed to feel good. With testosterone therapy and endurance sports, there doesn't seem to be a happy medium.
    • sdfdfsdf
      • RE: Testosterone Cypionate doesn't work for Runners. 6/13/2018 12:36PM - in reply to mcguck
      • sdfdfsdf
      • preload insulin pins, 10-15mg/day, no drops/spikes in levels
    • mcguck
      registered
      • RE: Testosterone Cypionate doesn't work for Runners. 6/13/2018 2:27PM - in reply to zohan
      • mcguck
        registered
      • zohan wrote:

        Guys on T-nation disagree with you.

        https://forums.t-nation.com/t/the-endurance-athlete/179876

        This was the only decent post I could find about testosterone and endurance athletes and again it's about running a cycle not everyday use. There is no correct dosage that will give you the benefits and allow you to perform.
    • saywhat1234
      • RE: Testosterone Cypionate doesn't work for Runners. 6/13/2018 5:05PM - in reply to Testie
      • saywhat1234
      • >

        Since when is high hematocrit a hindrance to cardiovascularly intensive exercise performance? (leaving aside any health implications to values over and above 50-60%)? Don't have the studies immediately at hand, but I'm sure there is a strong correlation between HC level and distance running performance.
    • T man
      • RE: Testosterone Cypionate doesn't work for Runners. 6/14/2018 9:27AM - in reply to mcguck
      • T man
      • mcguck wrote:

        80mg to 100mg seems to be the top end of testosterone per week without side effects. That being said you lose the other benefits of testosterone at that dosage such as a sense of well being, energy and desire and rock hard erections every day. My point in this is that its give or take but if anyone is thinking testosterone as a performance enhancer in running is silly.

        I'm currently taking 200mg every 2 weeks. I done an initial 10 weeks of injections and was tested and given 4 more weeks to stay at this level. I have not seen any benefits to my running and have put on unwanted weight. When I go back for more blood work I am going to request a smaller dose as the weight bothers me.
    • mcguck
      registered
      • RE: Testosterone Cypionate doesn't work for Runners. 6/14/2018 10:31AM - in reply to T man
      • mcguck
        registered
      • T man wrote:

        I'm currently taking 200mg every 2 weeks. I did an initial 10 weeks of injections and was tested and given 4 more weeks to stay at this level. I have not seen any benefits to my running and have put on unwanted weight. When I go back for more blood work I am going to request a smaller dose as the weight bothers me.

        I am currently injecting 80mg a week split into 3 injections of 26/27mg per injection. I also take .25mg of Arimidex 2 times a week to shed the water and keep my T from being turned into estrogen. I also inject with insulin needles which is less painful and less damaging to the muscles and or fat I inject. I eventually will drop my dosage to 60mg a week and get blood work done to see where my numbers are. I've given up on trying to have higher levels and the other benefits to just not have my Testosterone tank again. So even if my number settles around 400 at least it won't drop to 200-100 like it would when I trained. Since dropping my dosage the water weight has been dropping, crossing my fingers that it will continue to drop.

        To answer the question about hematocrit getting too high, try running a sprint and you can't catch your breath because your heart is beating out of your chest due to your blood turning to sludge. It is a balancing act even with EPO to not sludge up your blood to the point where you can't pump it. It kills your aerobic ability and the pump is insane to where you literally can't run. I used to run 7-8 miles a day and it got to where I couldn't get through a 3-mile run.
    • Uh uh
      • RE: Testosterone Cypionate doesn't work for Runners. 6/14/2018 10:32AM - in reply to mcguck
      • Uh uh
      • Cypionate is notorious for Sodium retention and swelling.

        Nandrolone decanoate is the endurance steroid PED.
    • InjectReject
      • RE: Testosterone Cypionate doesn't work for Runners. 6/14/2018 10:50AM - in reply to mcguck
      • InjectReject
      • Are doing all this under the care of a doctor or are you buying stuff on line and winging it?

        personally I don't think you should be injecting anything because it doesn't sound like you really understand your body if you think 200mg of test c is "turning your blood to sludge".
    • A guy on TRT
      • RE: Testosterone Cypionate doesn't work for Runners. 6/14/2018 11:39AM - in reply to mcguck
      • A guy on TRT
      • mcguck wrote:

        [quote]T man wrote:

        To answer the question about hematocrit getting too high, try running a sprint and you can't catch your breath because your heart is beating out of your chest due to your blood turning to sludge. It is a balancing act even with EPO to not sludge up your blood to the point where you can't pump it. It kills your aerobic ability and the pump is insane to where you literally can't run. I used to run 7-8 miles a day and it got to where I couldn't get through a 3-mile run.

        this is bull.s.
    • mcguck
      registered
      • RE: Testosterone Cypionate doesn't work for Runners. 6/14/2018 12:06PM - in reply to A guy on TRT
      • mcguck
        registered
      • A guy on TRT wrote:

        this is bull.s.

        Actually, it's not, on 200mg my hematocrit rose high enough that my blood pressure and heart rate shot up during a sprint. I then had to give an emergency blood donation to get my levels down. Wasn't able to run distance until I got my dosage down below 100mg a week.

        Yes, I am working with a doctor, have a legit script and get blood work done regularly.

        Everyone reacts different to testosterone but certain things hold true across the board. Testosterone is good for recovery not as a performance-enhancing drug for runners or cyclists. The doses at which benefits occur also bring with them side effects that negate all gains.
    • pop_pop!_v2.2.1
      registered
      • RE: Testosterone Cypionate doesn't work for Runners. 6/14/2018 12:21PM - in reply to mcguck
      • pop_pop!_v2.2.1
        registered
      • mcguck wrote: More studies are coming out showing testosterone only works in high dosages that have zero benefits for cyclists and runners.

        Faaaaaalse...... The simple fact is, exogenous T improves recovery. It is best used as part of a "recovery cocktail of drugs."

        What is going on with the hypothalamus and pituitary gland? Have you seen an endocrinologist? There's a very famous one in Texas that I'm certain could fix you up.
    • T man
      • RE: Testosterone Cypionate doesn't work for Runners. 6/14/2018 12:35PM - in reply to mcguck
      • T man
      • mcguck wrote:

        T man wrote:

        ...I'm currently taking 200mg every 2 weeks. I did an initial 10 weeks of injections and was tested and given 4 more weeks to stay at this level. I have not seen any benefits to my running and have put on unwanted weight. When I go back for more blood work I am going to request a smaller dose as the weight bothers me....

        I've given up on trying to have higher levels and the other benefits to just not have my Testosterone tank again. So even if my number settles around 400 at least it won't drop to 200-100 like it would when I trained. Since dropping my dosage the water weight has been dropping, crossing my fingers that it will continue to drop.


        This is my goal. I don't need my numbers in the 800s, I just don't want them in the 200s again. Need to find that 'sweet spot', where I get the health benefits but not the weight gain.