How are other people meant to use that area of the park? Children? Female runners? Those right-on homeless defenders dictating to others don’t seem to have been so present in actually found something.
If you let s problem like this subsist (and the extensive pile of belongings indicates he was there for some time) then of course some people will step in to try and do something to reclaim the park for the public.
Most liberal European countries don’t allow things to get to this state. Homeless living on the streets are politely reward by the police to clear up their belongings in daytime, not take over an area of park so everyone else is inconvenienced so ineiersin can squat there.
Which one of you threw the homeless guy's stuff in the lake? Runner on video.
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belial wrote:
Hffhjb wrote:
Coughing man wrote:
looking for answers. wrote:
Homelessness is a real problem and a very complicated issue to solve. While this man's actions were totally wrong, on the other hand allowing someone to create a massive pile of junk on public property is also wrong. Most of that stuff was garbage. Homeless hoarders are a real issue. I can understand the man's frustrations, but it doesn't excuse his actions.
How do all of you think society should deal with the issue faced - a homeless man living in a public space and creating a huge pile of junk. Are people allowed to just do as they please on public property? What if anything should have been done about the situation?
How do they do it in Spain? I’m here now and shocked at how few homeless and sketchy people there are in Barcelona and especially Madrid. Are they allowed to institutionalize them against their will?
Spain population: 46 million
US population: 325 million
So, your argument is, the larger the population, the larger the proportion of homeless people? Funny. I thought in a modern economy, a fundamental principle is that, on average, a human is a useful resource (takes in fewer resources than produces). If this is not the case, we probably need to rethink, like, everything, especially capitalism.
No, who told you that? What he is saying is that a certain percentage of the population has severe emotional and mental problems, which accounts for the vast majority of the truly indigent population.
Personally, I do not think we should organize our society for the benefit of the bottom 1% at the expense of the masses.
If we are rethinking anything, we should rethink the idea of institutionalizing some of these truly helpless folks “against their will”, which includes providing housing, food, clothes, etc. that or maybe you could personally take some of these people into your home. -
Kipisjaarvi wrote:
How are other people meant to use that area of the park? Children? Female runners? Those right-on homeless defenders dictating to others don’t seem to have been so present in actually found something.
If you let s problem like this subsist (and the extensive pile of belongings indicates he was there for some time) then of course some people will step in to try and do something to reclaim the park for the public.
Most liberal European countries don’t allow things to get to this state. Homeless living on the streets are politely reward by the police to clear up their belongings in daytime, not take over an area of park so everyone else is inconvenienced so ineiersin can squat there.
So the U.S. Should ship its homeless to Spain.I
And California should be sliced up into 3 states and the southern one be given back to Mexico. -
Postman Pat. Postman Pat. Postman Pat and his black and white cat.
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If he didn't want his stuff thrown into the lake then he shouldn't have been homeless
MUSAGA -
Bummer `/ wrote:
Longduckdong wrote:
Man, so the guy was arrested and is being held on $100K bail? Our society is f'd up ... now ole jogger joe will lose his job and have to setup camp right next to the homeless bum. We shoulda been thanking jogger joe.
I definitely agree with this.
The fact that he even was arrested is quite amazing. I wish they'd do the same to the people that break into cars and homes here in the Bay Area. No, those people are not even arrested, even if caught in the act. They're given a misdemeanor citation as long as the crime is less than $950. We need to keep the prison population down and all that (except when you commit a crime against the favored group of the month - homeless this month) then you get hammered. -
This is in Oakland. This jogger guy shouldnt have done this, but holy crap the homeless here are out of control. I run a business in the area and it is constant break ins, climbing on our roof to spray paint, etc. It has become just part of the cost of doing business to replace broken and stolen equipment.
The city is too paralyzed to make them move along, but ironically wont allow you to add razor wire to keep them from climbing your fence and building. Police reports are collected and ignored.
I get that the roots of homelessness go deep, but still... If I tried to expand my belongings out onto the street, I would get a fine.
Maybe instead of building the A's a new stadium, they should make them pay for free housing to be built for homeless to get them off the street. -
I'm sure the public housing is bad. But the homeless here are constantly stabbing and beating each other.
The idea is to give them housing that is slightly safer for the homeless and immensely safer for the rest of the public. Then when they have an address, the few who truly just feel onto a hard time can hopefully get their feet back under them using the support of case managers and case workers.
Bleeding Heart Dogooder wrote:
It might be better in other Metro areas like Newark or Oakland---so realize this is a small sample--but next time you're in Denver, take a ride to the Curtis Park public housing and tell me that's the solution.
I'm not so sure it's better than sleeping on a lake shore.
FFF wrote:
Coughing man wrote:
looking for answers. wrote:
Homelessness is a real problem and a very complicated issue to solve. While this man's actions were totally wrong, on the other hand allowing someone to create a massive pile of junk on public property is also wrong. Most of that stuff was garbage. Homeless hoarders are a real issue. I can understand the man's frustrations, but it doesn't excuse his actions.
How do all of you think society should deal with the issue faced - a homeless man living in a public space and creating a huge pile of junk. Are people allowed to just do as they please on public property? What if anything should have been done about the situation?
How do they do it in Spain? I’m here now and shocked at how few homeless and sketchy people there are in Barcelona and especially Madrid. Are they allowed to institutionalize them against their will?
Spain follows the "housing first" model, as do some places in the US. This essentially puts everyone in an apartment or something, and uses guidance to keep an eye on things and allow them to decide when to take the next step, get help, etc. The cost for this is FAR cheaper than the mitigation efforts needed to clean up homeless messes.
The logistics are immense, but everywhere this is used, there is success. I live where there's a tremendous homeless problem, and it's not a reach to say this phenomenon will touch just about everyone in the US given economic realities, so don't let anyone say this is a difficult or unsolvable problem. It might be difficult to deal with the homeless, but the solution is indeed "housing first." -
How do homeless afford spray paint? I question the validity of your story.
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formermayorjerrybrown wrote:
How do homeless afford spray paint? I question the validity of your story.
How do homeless eat? How do they get high? How do they get laid? How do they cloth themselves?
People get stuff without needing money sometimes. Just because they’re homeless doesn’t mean they are incapable of acquiring physical objects readily accessible throughout every city. -
Ask better questions wrote:
formermayorjerrybrown wrote:
How do homeless afford spray paint? I question the validity of your story.
How do homeless eat? How do they get high? How do they get laid? How do they cloth themselves?
People get stuff without needing money sometimes. Just because they’re homeless doesn’t mean they are incapable of acquiring physical objects readily accessible throughout every city.
Government handouts.
MUSAGA -
While I would never personally do that (partially because who knows what bodily fluids or diseases are in that stuff), but I do get his frustration. I live in Los Angeles, another area where the homeless population is getting out of control and there have been times running where literally the entire sidewalk is blocked with homeless encampments and trash, forcing me to run onto the busy street or through piles of trash and junk. Even one of the local parks I run it has homeless people making the park bathroom their home-clothes and trash spewed all over the bathroom floor. It starts to become a sanitary and safety issue and while they keep saying they are going to build or find more housing, it hasn't seemed to happen.
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The left coast is really screwed up.
So the people supporting the homeless man -- what exactly are they saying? That any person can commandeer any part of any public space at any time for any duration of time? Because that's what the homeless man was doing by leaving all his stuff there. -
Lip Kitten wrote:
Mystery solved
https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Man-Arrested-After-Throwing-Homeless-Mans-Stuff-Into-Oaklands-Lake-Merritt-485314711.html
I didn't know Adam Sandler was a runner. -
It's a mad world wrote:
The left coast is really screwed up.
So the people supporting the homeless man -- what exactly are they saying? That any person can commandeer any part of any public space at any time for any duration of time? Because that's what the homeless man was doing by leaving all his stuff there.
He only did that because no home was available to him*.
*Note that to the left, "unavailable" is defined as "not provided free of charge by the government." For example, birth control is considered unavailable if a person is in a position where they have to buy their own damn box of condoms. -
poor people be crazy wrote:
It's a mad world wrote:
The left coast is really screwed up.
So the people supporting the homeless man -- what exactly are they saying? That any person can commandeer any part of any public space at any time for any duration of time? Because that's what the homeless man was doing by leaving all his stuff there.
He only did that because no home was available to him*.
*Note that to the left, "unavailable" is defined as "not provided free of charge by the government." For example, birth control is considered unavailable if a person is in a position where they have to buy their own damn box of condoms.
lol, so true -
The jogger is a jerk. I can almost see him thinking, "If no one else is going to put a stop to this, I will."
What if we all had that attitude? There would be total chaos and lawlessness. Personally, I can't stand the way most people drive (driving slow in the fast lane, not using turn signals etc.), people with kids that scream in restaurants, inconsiderate people drive me nuts. Does that mean I should confront everyone who irritates me?
The jogger was basically taking the law into his own hands and most of you are supporting him. This really has become Trump's America. -
old guy 72 wrote:
The jogger is a jerk. I can almost see him thinking, "If no one else is going to put a stop to this, I will."
What if we all had that attitude? There would be total chaos and lawlessness. Personally, I can't stand the way most people drive (driving slow in the fast lane, not using turn signals etc.), people with kids that scream in restaurants, inconsiderate people drive me nuts. Does that mean I should confront everyone who irritates me?
The jogger was basically taking the law into his own hands and most of you are supporting him. This really has become Trump's America.
Sounds like you live an exceptionally privileged life if those things bother you. -
I probably do, but you missed the point.
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belial wrote:
I thought in a modern economy, a fundamental principle is that, on average, a human is a useful resource (takes in fewer resources than produces). If this is not the case, we probably need to rethink, like, everything, especially capitalism.
Yes, "on average" a human is a useful resource. Unfortunately, there is a percentage of the population that is not.. For starters about 15% of the population has an IQ below 85 making them mostly unemployable.
