Who will win STACKED US junior 800 final? NCAA champ Sammy Watson (2:00.65 pb), HS phenom Caitlin Collier (2:00.85 pb) or Avi’T

hsrunnergall wrote:

She a beast wrote:

It doesn't surprise me. She was huge high school talent. Anyone notice how little attention/spotlight milesplit put on her last year? They talked and talked about the girl from VA that was running 5 or 6 seconds slower but barely mentioned Sammy Watson? She was the most impressive runner across the board last year in my opinion with her 800/1000 times.

Do you mean Rachel McArthur? She is still very talented herself, but she got more attention than Watson because her parents work at milesplit.

And I'm just going to say it...Rachel is a lot better looking. It obviously matters.

Any results yet?

Editor's note: NCAA champ Sammy Watson - the freshman at Texas A&M - defeated prep star Caitlin Collier. Results and splits below.

https://twitter.com/letsrundotcom/status/1008176659898556418

Watson - 1, Collier - 0

Close race with Watson coming out in top, 2:01.46 to Collier’s 2:01.66. I didn’t get to watch, but the splits say the race went out in 59 mid.

https://results.usatf.org/2018JrOutdoors/

So a prep came within 0.2 of beating the NCAA champion. Crazy.

Looks like Watson did her usual sit-and-kick on Collier.

Sammy MF Watson. 1:58 within 2-3 years, and probably go pro before her 3rd year.

upchuck and die wrote:

So a prep came within 0.2 of beating the NCAA champion. Crazy.

Looks like Watson did her usual sit-and-kick on Collier.

Why is that crazy? Do you not realize that Collier is 97 days older than Watson.

What is crazy is the following.

Job hunting wrote:

Who has been coaching the A&M 800 runners? Francique was fired at the end of indoors and the athletes - both men and women - have continued to run really well. I’m impressed that they stayed the course so well with a mid season coaching change

Why was Francique let go? The guy who coached Donavan Brazier and Jazmine Fray to an NCAA record plus landed Sammy Watson as a recruit was let go midseason and their barely was a peep about it? I never even heard about it on letsrun - was there a messageboard thread about it. What happened? How can that be?

Collier post-race interview:

http://www.dyestat.com/gprofile.php?mgroup_id=44531&do=videos&video_id=247244-Caitlin-Collier-2nd-Place-Women-039-s-800-Meter-Run-USATF-Junior-Outdoor-Championships-2018

97 days is negligible, but Sammy was the WORLD u20 champ in 2016 and is by far the most experienced at that age. Again, she is a WORLD CHAMPION. It would have been a massive upset if Collier won.

That's like saying it wouldn't have been an upset if Kim Collins beat Usain Bolt in the Olympics because Collins is older.

This Collier chick is legit. Where is she going next year?

97 is negligible? Okay. When everyone thought Watson was older it was a big deal, but now it turns out she's younger, it doesn't matter?

Let's just call this what it is:

Mary Cain vs. Ajee Wilson part 2.

Lots of hype for one girl in each case - guess which one, and then she flames out, while the one who goes on to become world class just goes about her business and gets little love. Even though she has done nothing to warrant it in years, Mary Cain elicits more buzz on here than Wilson.

Why was Francique let go?

Why do male coaches get let go? It's not rocket science :-)

You really believe a lot would have been a massive upset if an athlete who just did a full ncaa season - as a freshman- won an ncaa title didn’t win USA juniors. She could be emotionally tired, she could be ready to be back home after a long freshman hear, she could be at the end of her peak for the season. Between sec, regional, and ncaa you should understand she isn’t at the same place as a high school kid- mentally or physically with her peak. She did win- but it would not be a big deal or upset if she didn’t.

nationalchamp wrote:

97 is negligible? Okay. When everyone thought Watson was older it was a big deal, but now it turns out she's younger, it doesn't matter?

Let's just call this what it is:

Mary Cain vs. Ajee Wilson part 2.

Lots of hype for one girl in each case - guess which one, and then she flames out, while the one who goes on to become world class just goes about her business and gets little love. Even though she has done nothing to warrant it in years, Mary Cain elicits more buzz on here than Wilson.

Cain was faster in High School than Ajee, in a range of events, including Wilson's own.

Cigfjm wrote:

You really believe a lot would have been a massive upset if an athlete who just did a full ncaa season - as a freshman- won an ncaa title didn’t win USA juniors. She could be emotionally tired, she could be ready to be back home after a long freshman hear, she could be at the end of her peak for the season. Between sec, regional, and ncaa you should understand she isn’t at the same place as a high school kid- mentally or physically with her peak. She did win- but it would not be a big deal or upset if she didn’t.

you are wrong. she could have skipped the meet if she was so tired mentally and physically. but she signed up to race, and she wouldn't have if she was as fried as you say.

Sammie won the World U20 Championships 2 years ago. She just won NCAAs. If she didn't win Junior Nationals this year (by all accounts a less competitive meet than those two), that would have been a large upset.

It is not a knock on Sammie, but rather a huge accomplishment for Collier.

Realidad wrote:

nationalchamp wrote:

97 is negligible? Okay. When everyone thought Watson was older it was a big deal, but now it turns out she's younger, it doesn't matter?

Let's just call this what it is:

Mary Cain vs. Ajee Wilson part 2.

Lots of hype for one girl in each case - guess which one, and then she flames out, while the one who goes on to become world class just goes about her business and gets little love. Even though she has done nothing to warrant it in years, Mary Cain elicits more buzz on here than Wilson.

Cain was faster in High School than Ajee, in a range of events, including Wilson's own.

And yet Cain’s PR is her high school PR, while Wilson has the American record and 3 world medals.

nationalchamp wrote:

97 is negligible? Okay. When everyone thought Watson was older it was a big deal, but now it turns out she's younger, it doesn't matter?

Let's just call this what it is:

Mary Cain vs. Ajee Wilson part 2.

Thanks. Exactly the first thing I thought.

PrZ wrote:

Realidad wrote:

Cain was faster in High School than Ajee, in a range of events, including Wilson's own.

And yet Cain’s PR is her high school PR, while Wilson has the American record and 3 world medals.

We are comparing teenagers here, not post-collegitaes. Try to stay on topic.

rojo wrote:

upchuck and die wrote:

So a prep came within 0.2 of beating the NCAA champion. Crazy.

Looks like Watson did her usual sit-and-kick on Collier.

Why is that crazy? Do you not realize that Collier is 97 days older than Watson.

Collier has been "racing" against high school kids in Florida. She did six 800s, winning by an average of about 7 seconds per race and was never seriously challenged until she ran 2:00.85 and missed the win by .17 against professionals at the Music City Distance Carnival. Basically, she has very limited actual racing experience. She time trials a lot against the high school kids, but that doesn't help when you match up against someone just as physically talented.

Watson has done eight 800s against D1 athletes. She has not won all of her races, meaning she's had to get better at tactics, and those she HAS won have often been by less than 1 second.

Experience is a huge advantage. Anyone who doesn't realize that likely has no experience.

Beating Collier by .2 seconds is not going to leave Watson feeling like she's definitely going to be a repeat NCAA 800 champ next season. Meanwhile, I can almost guarantee Collier is thinking she's going to win next year.

That is true. Even though Collier is older her upside is greater than Watson's at this point in time, both physically and tactically. She has yet to train like a collegian and has a lot more to learn tactically. One point in her favor already is she is obviously not phased racing other athletes just as talented and more experienced. A lot of high school phenoms can never adjust to not being a big fish in a small pond.