Michael Norman can break 1:40 in the 800. Change my mind

Depends, what does his current training look like?

1-800-139-NRMN wrote:

43.06, all he has to do is cruise a 46 then hang on for another 53 seconds. That is the first 1:39 in history.

legendary bro. I agree, we have all these rabbits in races but in the end its a kickers fest. just go wire to wire in some MJ gangsta shi*

hot take - high school kids have more balls in races than professional runners

Lydiard Cerutty wrote:

Depends, what does his current training look like?

he just ran a 43.06 split what the heck u think it look like

1-800-139-NRMN wrote:

43.06, all he has to do is cruise a 46 then hang on for another 53 seconds. That is the first 1:39 in history.

Uh huh, you just incited the fury of the letsrun zombies. Here they come.

What's the old saying?

Mileage kills? No, that's not it.

Speed kills

He could easily make it to 500 in 60 and probably to 600 in 1:12-13 but the last 200 might be tough.

43.06, all he has to do is cruise a 46 then hang on for another 53 seconds. That is the first 1:39 in history.[/quote]

He has the same 400 PR as 1:43 man Emmanuel Korir and Korir has infinitely more endurance. Flying start relay splits don't count for jack!

If/when sub-1:40 800m occurs, split will be 48.xx or 49.xx for first 400m and 50.xx or 51.xx for second 400m.

if/when wrote:

If/when sub-1:40 800m occurs, split will be 48.xx or 49.xx for first 400m and 50.xx or 51.xx for second 400m.

great insight...

He was barely breathing after that recent 43.06. That actually indicates he doesn't have the capacity to go another lap in world class speed. He was already straining in the face at 300m and his left leg was tying up on the homestretch for sure. He fought it off really well in the 400 and to be sure I think he's going to set a WR someday in the 400, but he would run into an iron curtain somewhere between 600-700m if he goes out in 48-49.

Please refer to this thread:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=6271124

Hardloper wrote:

He has the same 400 PR as 1:43 man Emmanuel Korir and Korir has infinitely more endurance. Flying start relay splits don't count for jack!

I agree with the sentiment that running a fast 400 does not correlate to a great 800 time, but disagree that flying relay splits don’t mean anything.

As long as you add 0.7 sec to a relay split, it gives a very good indication of what the athlete ( if he is primarily an 800m runner) is ready to run/ is capable of over the two laps. If he has a recent 1500 time too, all the better.

But yes, a 400 split is no more or less useful than a 400 open time in indicating an 800m time IF the athlete is a 400m runner.

It won't happen, and he probably won't even try it. As a near GOAT at 400, why change events?

look at him wrote:

He was barely breathing after that recent 43.06. That actually indicates he doesn't have the capacity to go another lap in world class speed. He was already straining in the face at 300m and his left leg was tying up on the homestretch for sure. He fought it off really well in the 400 and to be sure I think he's going to set a WR someday in the 400, but he would run into an iron curtain somewhere between 600-700m if he goes out in 48-49.

He wasn’t breathing hard because he was only running for 43 seconds. He wouldnt need to tap into his aerobic system until after 90 seconds. At that point he would just need to fight off lactic acid for 9 seconds, approx 50 meters.

This is why going out hard(46/47) would be his best sub 1:40 strategy. He could probably hit 750 in 90 seconds. Change my mind.

He just ran 43.45 today in a normal 400. In order for Norman to break 1:40, he'd first have to beat David Rudisha or another very elite 800 runner. The difference between the 400 and the 800 is the lactic acid kicks in usually after 1 lap. So you start to breath heavier restricting oxygen to the muscles. I'd love to see any elite 400 guy, say Norman, Van Niekerk, or even Kirani James run an 800, and Id love to see a guy like Rudisha run a 400, but I think in order to get better at an 800 you'd have to lose some speed in workouts to trade off distance, or lose distance for a trade of speed to run a 400. After running a 46 , it's no different from running a 43, you'd still burn out. That's like telling Usain bolt to run a 20 second 200 then hand on for a 22 to run 42. Every WR is run even splits at most different by 1 second. It'd be more realistic to say Michael Normal would run a 49 then hang on with a 50, similar to what Rudisha did to break the World Record. However with all that said, and Norman's 400m indoor WR and outdoor PR, I could definitely see him run sub 43, like 42.92 or so.

1-800-139-NRMN wrote:

43.06, all he has to do is cruise a 46 then hang on for another 53 seconds. That is the first 1:39 in history.

He would have trouble breaking 1:51 with two full years of training for the event. He's a 200/400 guy. Period. But it is funny to watch people seriously believe he'd even be a threat at two laps to the top preps in the US.

1-800-139-NRMN wrote:

43.06, all he has to do is cruise a 46 then hang on for another 53 seconds. That is the first 1:39 in history.

ya, it's that easy,

just run the easy 46

and then jog in the 53.

boom, done.

like as not he will blow up a hamstring before sniffing WVN or even MJ's pb, let alone move to 800 and dominate there.

As for the energy systems, you get just about 40 seconds of free all-out running before the acid overflows. To handle the acid beyond that, you have to train that way, at slightly slower paces and higher volume that develop a significant oxygen component to the power applied. That's not how 400 runners train - they sensibly harp on the all-out-for-40-seconds thing instead.

This guy is also big. Taller than Juantorena, who was 1 second slower over 400 but more than 3 seconds away from sub 1:40.

I have seen the same thing said about Michael Johnson on these boards. It will never happen. Michael Norman is incredible, but he would be lucky to break 1:50.

Is Nike going to expect Mike Norman to maintain this peak fitness to September?

Lee Evans was a 1:52.xx 880 yard man. Norman is fit enough for a 500m dash between 58 to 59 currently. The mileage trade-off for Norman to be able to race sub-75 600m is not worth what Norman may lose in 200m & 400m performances.

Norman right now is no better at 800m than Evans was at 880 yard.