Seattle runners. Cougar attack (fatality) in Washington: Same trail as the course used for downhill marathons?

Jetagimath wrote:

What can be done to reduce such encounters?

In India, certain rural areas had numerous human-Tiger encounters that resulted in deaths especially of women going to rivers to wash their clothes. So the authorities deployed human looking mannequins that had an electrical current running through them. This way when the tiger attacked the mannequin, it got a severe shock from a jolt of electricity. It was a shock that was large enough to dissuade the tiger from attacking humans but not enough to kill the tiger.

Why can't Americans implement a similar system to dissuade bears, cougars and coyotes from attacking humans in running trails?

Because other human will try to "handle" the electric mannequins , especially at night after drinking.

Downhill Runner wrote:

seattle prattle wrote:

The take-away for me from all this is to get some pepper spray and carry it every time i go in cougar country. Simple precaution, and it seems like it would be effective in almost all cases. Would work on a bear as well.

How can one break 2:45 on the tunnel mountain course running with pepper spray? I doubt this underweight cougar is an isolated incident. If one is starving, there will be others. This is going to ruin those BQ marathons.

Not a joke either. Condolences to the victims.

i'm no expert but if you are one of a line of runners, even a very spread out line, i doubt a cougar would attack. To a wild animal, seeing dozens of runners go by in the course of minutes must look like a veritable parade. And carrying a little can of pepper spray doesn't seem such a big deal.

Along those lines, lately i've come to shoving a gel or two into an arm sleeve, for convenience and since it doesn't bounce like it would in a pocket in your running shorts. That's where i would put it, if running (alone).

I'm more scared of the cougars at my local fun runs

Yes, the most dangerous cougars can be found in Southern California. The really wild ones have enhanced breasts and Botox lips. When intoxicated and on the prowl they are quite deadly.

If Jamin had any courage he would go hunting for this particular species.

M.A.G.A...

Hilarious.... your arrogance precedes you - in fact, overwhelmes you. Given my age, and the fact that I’ve lived most of my life in mountain regions -albeit, void of big cats - your comments are amusing. You saw bears in Ranier, most likely black bears - I run into them frequently- totally different response than cats. Anyone with an ounce of wildlife knowledge would never be as cavalier about any predator. A simple wiki search will document cat attacks in relatively populated areas, upon unknowing victims throughout North America. If you don’t feel adequate protection necessary, more power to you. I’m sure your expanse of wilderness experience will preclude any serious confrontations.

Carrying and using a small hand gun would have saved the day.

Two to the cougars chest and two to his head.

I don't understand why so many people are getting worked up. One death in 94 years?

Are you going to quit driving because of auto deaths? Quit surfing because of an occasional shark attack? Stay indoors because of the risk of being struck by lightning?

I run in a park in Northern California where there have been numerous lion sightings. Everyone that I run with have spotted at least one in the 30 years I've been running there. We all know they're there. The only time anyone is a little worried is running alone on a remote trail before daybreak,

Bad luck can strike anytime, anywhere.

old guy 72 wrote:

I don't understand why so many people are getting worked up. One death in 94 years?

Are you going to quit driving because of auto deaths? Quit surfing because of an occasional shark attack? Stay indoors because of the risk of being struck by lightning?

I run in a park in Northern California where there have been numerous lion sightings. Everyone that I run with have spotted at least one in the 30 years I've been running there. We all know they're there. The only time anyone is a little worried is running alone on a remote trail before daybreak,

Bad luck can strike anytime, anywhere.

Exactly. If people are going to be worried then there are far more dangerous things to worry about to keep them inside their homes where they feel safe. Look at this study into the matter of cougar attacks.

“Bottom Line: You expect on average to be killed by a car at the very minimum 320 times before you expect to be killed by a mountain lion. So you really shouldn't start worrying about a mountain lion killing you until at least 160 of your hiking companions have been killed by automobiles.”

There's a difference between walking/hiking/working in the woods and running/biking in the woods. In the former cases one tends to be attentive and respectful of one's surroundings. That includes watchfulness for wild animals and care not to disturb the kinds of wild animals that can be dangerous (snakes possibly being first on the list - one doesn't go blithely sticking his arms in random holes in the ground). The second case is the complete opposite - the woods are background scenery and the very activity - running or biking - is inherently likely to bother some animals and reduce one's awareness of one's surroundings. What's the reason for running on trails in the woods? Go run on a ridge with good visibility.

When you're in the woods you're in the bear's house. Act like you do when you're in somebody else's house and show the due respect. Running like a banshee through there isn't all that respectful, so if you do, be careful.

As I indicated in an earlier post, my most dangerous encounters in the deep woods have ocurred when I stumbled on someone's marijuana growing operation. I'd much rather see a bear.

read statistics wrote:

And coyote attacks? Seriously? Coyotes don't attack adults, & if so, I strongly doubt a coyote could even hurt an adult. Have you actually seen a coyote in the wild? Are you scared of raccoons too?

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Tell that to Taylor Mitchell. Moran.

Taylor Swift wrote:

read statistics wrote:

And coyote attacks? Seriously? Coyotes don't attack adults, & if so, I strongly doubt a coyote could even hurt an adult. Have you actually seen a coyote in the wild? Are you scared of raccoons too?

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Tell that to Taylor Mitchell. Moran.

Seriously?

There has only been one fatal coyote attack ever recorded in the U.S. And that involved a 3 year old girl. But yes, fear the big bad coyote and stay locked inside.

The mitchel incident happened in eastern Canada where coyotes will breed with a wolf at times.

"Crocodile attacks are the most common of any big predator.

If a cougar stalks you based on what you act like, it may be better to not just hike along down the trail, because that looks passive like a prey animal. Bring a stick and every so often beat the crap out of a tree with it. Chase squirrels. Scare the birds and make them call warnings about you, build up your reputation."

Hold on, this sounds like a good idea. Is there any truth to this?

Read statistics wrote:

Taylor Swift wrote:

Tell that to Taylor Mitchell. Moran.

Seriously?

There has only been one fatal coyote attack ever recorded in the U.S. And that involved a 3 year old girl. But yes, fear the big bad coyote and stay locked inside.

The mitchel incident happened in eastern Canada where coyotes will breed with a wolf at times.

Condolences to those that have been hurt from animal encounters. My perspective is different. I have run with coyote packs in the California desert (actually it was the other way around), been stalked ( but I spotted them), but not attacked by a cougar a couple times in the mountains. They just seemed to be curious. I cherish those rare moments. Constant awareness is the best tool for safety and maybe a little luck . Peripheral vision and keen hearing are critical to enjoying the backcountry.

"Why can't Americans implement a similar system to dissuade bears, cougars and coyotes from attacking humans in running trails?"

Coyote attacks? Against adults? Maybe if you have a small to medium dog with you.

You're chances of seeing a mountain lion, much less getting attacked by one is far less than getting attacked by a dog. Depending on where live, you might see coyotes. You have far more to worry about with dogs.

I had to fend off a dog 4 times in my 10+ year running career. I saw countless coyotes and never once feared them.

Rattlesnakes were my biggest concern.

Now if I lived where I do now when I was a twice a day runner, I would have been a little weary of mountain lions on morning runs. Two have been found dead hit my cars less than 2 miles from my home in the 14 years I've lived here (suburban area on the edge of San Diego - where there is a canyon route out to the mountains).

I've known runners who came across black bears. They seem more afraid of you, but I certainly would not want to run across one myself. Even hiking.

Are cougars in Washington different than the ones say in Flagstaff?

I always wanted to see one in Flagstaff. This story makes me a bit glad I didn't.

While I was living in Flag a mountain lion started attacking some dogs. The Forest Service "removed" the lion. People asked where it was moved to and they said they killed it. There were then candlelight vigils for the lion in Flagstaff.

They then had a talk at NAU from a Forest Service person. He said if you've walked and run in Flagstaff a mountain lion likely has seen you and you haven't seen it. They avoid people by and large and like to surprise their prey. If the lion doesn't have this fear of people or their pets then it becomes a problem and they can't be moved somewhere else because in a few days they'll be back because they can cover so many miles.

In Mountana I'd be way, way more afraid of Grizzlies. Is that naive? I was scared to death to go running there and don't think I did when I was travelling cross country. Actually maybe I bought some bear spray and finally went running. And I got all sorts of advice on whether 2 60-70 lb dogs would be good to run with or worse to run with in terms of bears.

I ran thousands of miles in Flag by myself and never felt scared at all? Should I have been?

Saw a bobcat once but that was it. Huge rattler down in Phoenix. Dogs probably are the biggest concern as some have said or a car hitting me if I'm on a road.

seattle prattle wrote:

The take-away for me from all this is to get some pepper spray and carry it every time i go in cougar country. Simple precaution, and it seems like it would be effective in almost all cases. Would work on a bear as well.

For what it is worth, the news today is saying they are doing tests on the dead cougar and we should know in a few days if it was sick or not. As for it's weight, they say it may be due to it seeking out a new territory, based on it being of the age (3 years) when young male cougars often do this.

No the big take-away is this. DO NOT turn away and try run away from a cougar/mountain lion. This predator is wired to chase prey and unfortunately that is what happened to the dead biker. Had both bikers remained swinging their bikes at the cougar while screaming and shouting and holding their ground, we would have no dead biker today. If anything, you stand your ground and then slowly back away slowly but ALWAYS facing the cougar with a defensive stance and creating distance very, very slowly. Turn around and you're dead.

Lesson to be learned, stay aggressive, defend your ground, make yourself larger like lifting a bike over your head for example (to the cougar you look less like an easy score) be loud, use anything you can as a weapon (rocks, sticks, bicycle, knife, etc) and NEVER turn your back and try to run away, unless you want to a cougar's next meal.

This. Some of the articles on this attack quote the wildlife officers as saying "They did everything right". Well, for the first encounter, yes, but on the second attack, no. If they had ridden next to each other and teamed up they would likely both have gotten away without injury. Two people next to each other, each holding up a bike would be a very effective defensive position. I would have loved to have such conditions in my encounter. All I had was my wet tee shirt and bare hands in increasing darkness.

One other point is that bikers are in the worst position for an attack, as they are leaning forward with their hands occupied, which effectively turns them into a deer. In my confrontation, standing tall over the animal with my hands raised and yelling seemed to be effective, although the cat was anything but afraid of me, more like disdain and evaluating whether the meat would be worth the effort.

Exactly!!! The cops were right, the second biker absolutely made a deadly mistake during the second attack. Again, as the other poster stated, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER turn your back on a cougar/mountain lion and try to outrun it. Otherwise, you become a Darwin Award instant winner.