Runningart is dead on. Lift to improve economy via strength to mass ratio and through plyos.
That weight range also helps improve bone mineral density as do plyos. Stress fracture prevention.
Runningart is dead on. Lift to improve economy via strength to mass ratio and through plyos.
That weight range also helps improve bone mineral density as do plyos. Stress fracture prevention.
The studies were done on high level athletes not HS runners. Moderate intensity is best for beginners. The OP, although an excellent runner, is just a HS junior.
coach wrote:
The studies were done on high level athletes not HS runners. Moderate intensity is best for beginners. The OP, although an excellent runner, is just a HS junior.
There are studies done on recreational runners as well. Mo lifts heavy. Rupp lifts heavy.
The end state is to lift heavy.
Start moderate to learn the lift. Then lift heavy.
In a new lifter the difference between a moderate 10-15 reps and a heavy 4-6 reps isn’t going to be much due to lack of experience and muscle development.
Exercise selection is important. The back squat gives people worry.....then do the front squat...less worry. The same goes for the trap bar deadlift.
There are also many ways to lift explosively. Once you’ve developed strength add Plyos, but you could also add explosive lifts. Same lifts you’ve been doing with reduced loads lifted for speed for 3-5 reps. Or you could change it up, do quarter squats to a box for speed or explosive step ups.
Alan
It's important to note that everybody who's speaking against runningart's "heavy" thoughts, keep in mind, heavy is relative, and images of James Harrison shouldn't be in your mind when thinking of training a developing endurance athlete. Lifting weight less than 5 reps, focusing on power and strength won't bulk him up, if anything, you'll become really strong and ripped on top of all the running.
Sounds like this preseason so this is great time to start a strength program. Im a fan of hiring a strength coach. You are new to this and its important to know good form and to set of a plan for you.
But in general any one legged stance work is good. One legged bridges and deadlifts.
Turkish get ups are great. But again finding someone knowledgable to teach you the TGU would be important.
Im a fan of lunges for runners. Goblet squats are good.
Planks. Dont have to go the three minutes. Just some high quality 30 sec - 1 min. When you master the plank. Move on to perhaps crawling.
Pushups are good. And pullups. But if you cant do a pull up you can do rows.
Kettlebell swings are great. But please find some one who knows how to do the hip propelled rkc swing. Again I recommend always you find a certified strength coach before you start a program and try any of the exercises above and make sure a doc or exercise pro can screen you. These exercises are only recommendations and strength programs should be individualized. Always get a doctors approval before starting any program.
Runs like 29's at a crappy college wrote:
What??? NO NO NO, OP should be lifting low weight high rep. His actual muscle strength means virtually nothing, We are not trying to make him a 100m dash specialist here. Low weight high rep works on muscle endurance, which is what a DISTANCE RUNNER needs in his/her muscles. ^^^This strategy will make his sprints faster and long distance actually slower.
Please research type 1 and type 2 (fast and slow twitch) muscle fibers before informing distance runners of how to lift.
The trolling on LR can be funny, but let's keep it off of threads where inexperienced runners might not understand that you're joking and might follow your advice. The rest of us obviously realize that you're being intentionally ridiculous, but a HS kid might not.
Hiring a strength coach is a great idea, but something most can't afford. HS strength coaches vary wildly in their knowledge and education. A college strength coach would be ideal.
Really if you just stick with the basics for now you should be fine.
Front Squat. Cross arm grip is going to prevent the wrist discomfort associated with the clean grip.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVTkbggmxR0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cnc0qKLAgcU
Take videos of your lifts. The bar should move in a vertical straight line above your midfoot. Your midfoot is your point of balance. A common mistake is the bar moving forward due to caving in. The good thing with a front squat is that you can easily feel this as the bar will simply roll down your arms. Keep your chest high throughout the lift. Chest high is NOT head to the ceiling, that's a common misnomer. Look straight ahead. Another common mistake is knee valgus, your knees caving in as you move out of the bottom position. This is more common in female athletes as well. As you come up push your knees out to keep the knees over the feet. Feet In, Knees Out!
Trap Bar Deadlift:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8ZB0cwbDT8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNmGkfMhma0
Hip width. Midfoot again over the bar. Hinge back, feel those hamstrings stretch. Shoulders in back pockets. Grab the handles with the middle finger in line with the axis of the bar. Biiiiiiig breath. Chest out, which will rotate your butt down a smidge. Lift.
Alan
Runningart2004 wrote:
[
There are studies done on recreational runners as well. Mo lifts heavy. Rupp lifts heavy.
Alan
Do they really? Every video where they lift its light weights.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AVXu7A2K0nYweightssss wrote:
Runningart2004 wrote:
[
There are studies done on recreational runners as well. Mo lifts heavy. Rupp lifts heavy.
Alan
Do they really? Every video where they lift its light weights.
By Mo’s effort with 230lb that’s at least 85% of his max.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FaM-tULWwH0Rupp explosive effort with 105lb(?)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FaM-tULWwH0Alan
Runningart2004 wrote:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AVXu7A2K0nYweightssss wrote:
Do they really? Every video where they lift its light weights.
By Mo’s effort with 230lb that’s at least 85% of his max.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FaM-tULWwH0Rupp explosive effort with 105lb(?)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FaM-tULWwH0Alan
- First video is of a woman.
- Rupp with 105? Thats not heavy at all for him.
- Second and third video is the same
weightsss wrote:
Runningart2004 wrote:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AVXu7A2K0nYBy Mo’s effort with 230lb that’s at least 85% of his max.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FaM-tULWwH0Rupp explosive effort with 105lb(?)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FaM-tULWwH0Alan
- First video is of a woman.
- Rupp with 105? Thats not heavy at all for him.
- Second and third video is the same
Oops, when I searched Mo and squatting I must have posted the wrong video.
He’s on record about squatting 200lbs.
With Rupp, you’re missing the point entirely. No 105 I’m sure isn’t heavy for him, but he’s moving it explosively so it shouldn’t be heavy. Regardless....they aren’t doing high reps with just the bar.
Alan
Mo can squat 200lb for 4-6 reps.
Now that doesn’t mean everyone should throw on 200 and cross their fingers. You lift what you can lift and progress from there.
Alan
Alan, I've got HS kids who have the ability to squat 200 pounds. However I'd still rather they do lighter weights and less volume. I'd rather they do a routine of turkish get ups with a 4 kilogram kettle bell perfectly and goblet squats and kettle bell swings.
You showed videos of Tate and Cressey, what do you think they'd advocate for the OP?
coach wrote:
Alan, I've got HS kids who have the ability to squat 200 pounds. However I'd still rather they do lighter weights and less volume. I'd rather they do a routine of turkish get ups with a 4 kilogram kettle bell perfectly and goblet squats and kettle bell swings.
You showed videos of Tate and Cressey, what do you think they'd advocate for the OP?
I think goblet squat, kettle bell swings, and Turkish get ups are great. They all have a place. You have to crawl before you c an walk and walk before you run. You also should include mobility based work as part of a warmup anyway.
I’m just saying there is no reason to be fearful of lifting actual weight. HS athletes in other sports do it everyday.
In a complete progressive program yes you would include light to moderate weights as well as movement based mobility work. You would also progress to heavy loads and lighter explosive loads as well as unilateral work and unilateral explosive work.
I’m pretty sure I’ve advocated for all of that. However, I typically focus on the heavy lifting guidance because that is where the unfounded fear and dogma lies.
Alan
Closing speed comes from aerobic endurance. That being said, you can only kick at the end of a race at near your best sprinting ability, so how do we improve sprinting ability? Most will say the weight room. However, the track is a better place to start getting fast, as it is specific to sprinting. Try these:
1. 10x120m strides, 2-3 times a week following training runs. This will improve running economy, and improve creatine phosphate reserves
2. 6-8 x 80m hill sprints once a week. This will definitely help strength and explosiveness
3. Explosive plyometrics a couple times a week, ie. bounding, high knees, box jumps/squat jumps etc
4. General strength, can be in the weight room. This is the least important of these 4 recommendations for middle distance/distance runners. Be cautious not to exhaust yourself as this is not running specific, get generally strong and balanced, but don't do too much. Power fiber recruitment really doesn't help much, and will happen by running a lot and doing 1-3.
Now go get fast!
Just look up the Oregon Project strength training. You can find a website with pictures and detailed info on how to do everything. Good for core and stability to stay healthy and hold form late in races.
Agree with earlier post from Alan. You only need 4 exercises:
1) Front squats (easiest on back)
2) Hex bar deadlifts (only exercise correlated to make sprinters faster)
3) overhead shoulder press
4) bench press
Focus on technique and in 3-4 months start adding a bit of weight to the bar. Decide if you want beach muscles or to be faster.
In 6-9 months consider things like the Olympic lifts which will keep you challenged.
Rich P
What's the recommendation for timing of high weight, low rep weight sessions for the lower body? Same day as workout to keep hard days hard? If so, should it be directly after? Or is it better to space the efforts out?
connorcrouch27 wrote:
What's the recommendation for timing of high weight, low rep weight sessions for the lower body? Same day as workout to keep hard days hard? If so, should it be directly after? Or is it better to space the efforts out?
Lift on hard days, preferably hours after your hard effort. If you lift the day prior to a hard run day your hard run day will suffer.
You could lift right after a hard run, just eat a banana, drink some water and ensure you do a good mobility warmup as your legs will be tight due to the shorter range of motion of running.
Alan
I came from a great high school program that fared very well in the county, state, and regional levels. Our coach worked our butts off with moderate mileage (~50 a week), core, and strengthening that included lifting. I'm currently a sophomore in college (division 1) who is struggling to cut down my times. My theory is it's because I came from such an intense program, I'm having a hard time finding ways to refine my training regimen.
My advice to you would be to focus on primarily core and body weight exercises (air squats, hip exercises, push ups, etc) while in high school and and wait to start heavy lifting until you reach the college level. You're already running a great time for a high schooler without lifting so you'll have no trouble getting into a solid college program. Build yourself a good strength base with body weight exercising and then focus on lifting in college. You might find it easier to improve at the college level if you do that.