Grace has ran 10:31 for 3200m, however, she has ran 10:28 for the full 2 mile at NBN.
Grace has ran 10:31 for 3200m, however, she has ran 10:28 for the full 2 mile at NBN.
Youth sports is really interesting for so many reasons. It's easy to see the problems with the other sports with AAU basketball, the plethora of youth summer sports camps (so called elite), and on and on.
Track/running always seemed different and didn't seem to fall into the trap of too much too soon for the kids. However, it sure seems these two girls are applying the "AAU basketball model" to their running.
One argument is that if the kid is enjoying it and it doesn't hurt then let them do it.
Another argument is that parents should be protecting their kids.
I just see over and over the burnout that exists in youth runners with practically all of them doing less than what these two girls are doing at such a young age.
I hope that these two girls have a passion for this sport 5-10 years down the road and stay physically and mentally healthy all along the way. I just think a more conservative approach in their running is a route I would prefer to take. Specifically
1) No travel out of state to run in national competition or road races with exception of NXC, foot locker, NB nationals
2) No winter track meets between Nov-Feb 15
3) Max of 5 day training per week in HS season
4) Max of 3 day running per week out of HS season
So yeah I get that at such a young age these girls are the talk of the town. Nothing criminal about this. I just think the sport has so much more to offer with each passing year from 9th-college years and I would want all runners to enjoy those benefits. No guarantees that these girls will be NCAA elites - but I think they could have a great experience in the upcoming years and would be better served to be very low key in their approach until 9th grade (at the earliest).
We put them in the same conversation as Mary Cain. While mary made money and had some great experiences I think she would have been better off in the long run following the traditional model (HS/college). She might be smiling more these days, had great memories, great friends. Most see the Mary Cain thing as an experiment failed. I would hate to see any others follow suit, including these two sisters.
It doesn't help when FLOTRACK broadcast National Championships for indoor 400m for 5-6 year olds!
When looking at youth sport maybe a few of these crzy parents should watch this little video!
unnecessary hype wrote:
I just see over and over the burnout that exists in youth runners with practically all of them doing less than what these two girls are doing at such a young age.
Since you brought it up, could you explain exactly what “burnout” is? Sincere question, not trying to start an argument.
I see Mary Cain as the accelerated female version of Alan Webb. We could all speculate on "coulda/woulda/shoulda", but both had great careers. It is what it was.
In any case, all girl's age-group records will be demolished once Ingrid Ingebrigtsen comes on board....
You want them to train 3 days a week? wtf?
The reality is, that pushy parents will find ways to be pushy, even if it's not in running. And some kids are just driven from day one. The world's best climber, Adam Ondra, has "known" since age 6 that he was going to be a professional climber. That actually made him very patient, since he never doubted his career would last for decades...and it has.
There are many roads to the proverbial Rome.
There are definitely sports out there far pushier for young kids. Gymnastics practically requires that they're taken out of school past a certain point, tennis is home to some crazy parents, etc.
It's so difficult to judge from outside. There are kids with an obsessive natural drive whose parents can't keep up. Then there are parents who push too hard. We can't tell which is which over the internet.
Either way these two are obviously incredibly talented, hope it keeps working for them!
Yep - 3 days a week in the off season for kids who are in 8th grade. I would say no more than 4 days for 9th graders, 5 days for 10th graders, 5-6 days for 11 and 12 graders. Heck, I really prefer 0 days training in the winter months (Nov-Feb) for 8th graders but I can live with 3 days.
Geez, let them play other sports - basketball, hockey, volleyball, down hill ski - whatever- in the winter months.
We aren't training 8th graders to be Olympians at that age. We are coaching them to have fun, develop over time, experience lots of things in life. We aren't training them to be the best 8th graders of all time. I believe we are training/preparing them to be the best they can be during their lifetime in the sport and those years are usually 20-30yr olds.
Asked earlier - "what is burnout?" - answer: when the activity isn't fun anymore and/or becomes too stressful. Often the stress is to live up to the standards others have set for them, not standards they have set for themselves. I remember seeing smiles and a bounce in her stride when I say Mary Cain running a few years ago out in Eugene. I think it was a fun time for her and I believe she just graduated from HS earlier that spring. I don't see the same energy and enjoyment in her when it comes to running these days. I appreciate all she has accomplished but I do believe a more patient, college based approach would have better served her enjoyment for the sport and also better in the long run.
unnecessary hype wrote:
Asked earlier - "what is burnout?" - answer: when the activity isn't fun anymore and/or becomes too stressful. Often the stress is to live up to the standards others have set for them, not standards they have set for themselves.
Are you talking about school now with all the AP classes and such or are we still talking about running?
Nearly every relationship ever, either between yourself and another person or yourself and another thing, will go through a period when the activity isn't fun anymore and/or becomes stressful.
I am talking about running. Yeah I get it life is hard and things in life are hard and they are sometimes stressful. This includes, work, relationships, school. Running isn't any of those things for an 8th grader.
I am not saying that you should drop out because things are tough. What I am saying is that when the activity becomes "unfun" (and also often a source of unnecessary stress) and this pattern begins to take over then the athlete has the choice to go a different direction (i.e. quit the sport).
The bigger point I am trying to make is there is no need to rush kids into anything. Some consequences include burnout. And- the purpose for coaching youth is to develop interests, passion, self awareness. The purpose of coaching youth is not to see how good they are as youth. It is to plant the seed for the future when the athlete is best suited (physically and emotionaly) to be their best. Coaching youth is coaching for the future of the athlete and teaching life skills such as hard work, teamwork, discipline, AND patience.
So why do you suppose burnout is more common for females?
I'm not disagreeing with you, it's just a very complicated subject that is typically glossed over with a very general term: burnout. But what is actually happening?
Clarifications wrote:
I'm not disagreeing with you, it's just a very complicated subject that is typically glossed over with a very general term: burnout. But what is actually happening?
I don't really understand burnout. It's definitely more mental. I've heard it can come with increased and intense training, but I feel like someone with the right mental mindset could offset burnout- like Jordan Hasay or something
I would guess the decrease/plateau in performance that happens during/after puberty is very mentally difficult for a lot of young girls, and from what I know, guys don't go through that slowdown to the same degree. It essentially means they have to keep working harder than they used to and get very little improvement, if any.
my guess wrote:
I would guess the decrease/plateau in performance that happens during/after puberty is very mentally difficult for a lot of young girls, and from what I know, guys don't go through that slowdown to the same degree. It essentially means they have to keep working harder than they used to and get very little improvement, if any.
I wouldn't say there's always a guaranteed decrease/plateau in performance. Sometimes girls grow and they just get stronger and more able to handle intense training and increased mileage. you make it sound like it's a guarantee, but I like to believe its not a guarantee
why is this place so obsessed with girls bodies going through puberty?
timtam wrote:
It doesn't help when FLOTRACK broadcast National Championships for indoor 400m for 5-6 year olds!
When looking at youth sport maybe a few of these crzy parents should watch this little video!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQUWXCmmef4
So Norwegians don’t time track meets until the kids turn 13?
Have people in this thread ever heard of Jordan Hasay?
The pings are some of the best runners in the country. I don’t know how good they will be in the future. So what?
I have heard of Jordan Hasay and remember when she qualified for the US trials at 1500m as a high school student (I think I am right about that).
I don't know if when she was a 7th and 8th grader that she ran in all the national level meets that some current youth runners are doing. Travelling across the country multiple times during the year, including road races. So I don't know if Jordan Hasay did all of this in her youth. It was nice to see Jordan take the college route for her development. I know Rupp was a soccer player before he went all in on the running thing. He turned out pretty good without being a single minded distance runner at a young age.
Yes Jordan is a tremendous runner and yes she was very good while in younger years. I am just not familiar with her approach and training as a 12-15 year old.