Down goes Semenya!!!

The ones trolling unpleasantly about Semenya are the same ones who start and comment on the 'hottest female runner' threads. Go figure.

The site owners also enjoy making remarks such as 'widely regarded as' when naming some other people suspected of having the condition under discussion. It's what wikipedia calls 'weasel words'.

Nutjob? wrote:

AIS I just don't think the majority of the troglodytes in this thread care

Think what you like, but you're in the minority, this woman and plenty of others care:

Nutjob? wrote:

I don't "imagine" anything re: Semenya. That's my point. Everything, and I mean everything, that's been said about Semenya's T-levels, and having gone on suppressants, is speculation.

I bet you believed Lance Armstrong was clean when he was beating all those PED fuelled riders on his way to seven Tour de France wins.

"During the 7-year window when he won every Tour de France (1999-2005), 87% of the top-10 finishers (61 of 70) were confirmed dopers or suspected of doping."

Pantani,Ullrich,Contador,Landis,etc wrote:

Nutjob? wrote:

I don't "imagine" anything re: Semenya. That's my point. Everything, and I mean everything, that's been said about Semenya's T-levels, and having gone on suppressants, is speculation.

I bet you believed Lance Armstrong was clean when he was beating all those PED fuelled riders on his way to seven Tour de France wins.

"During the 7-year window when he won every Tour de France (1999-2005), 87% of the top-10 finishers (61 of 70) were confirmed dopers or suspected of doping."

Looks like a six year window, man.

I’m not that good at counting but wrote:

You're right, you're not that good at counting:

1999

2000

2001

2002

2003

2004

2005

This isn't quite true. We do know something about Semenya's t-levels. We know that she was given the option of surgery or chemical reduction below 10 nmol/L. We know that she refused surgery and accepted chemical reduction. Therefore, we know her t-level was greater than 10.

Further, we know that when she was chemically reduced to below 10, her performance declined significantly. Therefore, we can reasonably assume her t-level was not just marginally higher (11 or 12), but higher.

Whether it was in the low range of males (high teens or 20), as was leaked at the time, is speculation.

I can’t understand why the authorities are bending over backwards to make all these compromises because ONE self-seeking misfit wants to indulge herself taking the mickey out of the ’fair sex.’ If she wants to compete at sport, I’ve a suggestion. The South African women’s rugby team don’t perform very well on the world stage. One sport where I don’t think they test and Semenya wouldn’t stand out like a sore thumb anyway - and built like a brick outhouse, she’d obviously make a great lock forward.

Here we go again. Show us the link that details the terms of Semanya's alleged agreement with the IAAF re: surgery versus therapy. Where did either party ever reveal this information? What is the actual source of this information, apart from its constant recycling in media reports?

In summary then, you think intersex athletes should be allowed to compete as women unless they're had enough to win, in which case they should be banned?

OtherGuy1984 wrote:

...

Everyone is over complicating this. A five year old could take one look at Semenya and tell you that Semenya has no business participating in women's sports. This isn't rocket science people. It doesn't require expensive studies to figure this one out.

Maybe some things shouldn't be decided by five year olds, nor by the level of thinking of a five year old child?

wtfunny wrote:

OtherGuy1984 wrote:

...

Everyone is over complicating this. A five year old could take one look at Semenya and tell you that Semenya has no business participating in women's sports. This isn't rocket science people. It doesn't require expensive studies to figure this one out.

Maybe some things shouldn't be decided by five year olds, nor by the level of thinking of a five year old child?

But this is exactly my point. This isn’t a difficult issue. All of these mental gymnastics that everyone is going through to keep from hurting one runner’s feelings, to everyone else’s detriment, is ludicruous. Semenya needs to run in the men’s division or not run at all. The whole thing is a mockery to track and field. This is a fairness issue. Not a social justice issue.

7 editions of the race were held in a window of a few weeks greater than 6 years.

Another nutjob. wrote:

I’m not that good at counting but wrote:

You're right, you're not that good at counting:

1999

2000

2001

2002

2003

2004

2005

wtfunny wrote:

In summary then, you think intersex athletes should be allowed to compete as women unless they're had enough to win, in which case they should be banned?

This doesn't make sense, very poor considering you like to disparage others posting ability. Please clarify and I might answer.

Please clarify. wrote:

wtfunny wrote:

In summary then, you think intersex athletes should be allowed to compete as women unless they're had enough to win, in which case they should be banned?

This doesn't make sense, very poor considering you like to disparage others posting ability. Please clarify and I might answer.

I shouldn't post from my phone.

" ... unless they're good enough to win .."

OtherGuy1984 wrote:

wtfunny wrote:

Maybe some things shouldn't be decided by five year olds, nor by the level of thinking of a five year old child?

But this is exactly my point. This isn’t a difficult issue. All of these mental gymnastics that everyone is going through to keep from hurting one runner’s feelings, to everyone else’s detriment, is ludicruous. Semenya needs to run in the men’s division or not run at all. The whole thing is a mockery to track and field. This is a fairness issue. Not a social justice issue.

I'm not sure it's about not hurting one's runners feelings at all and I'm unsure why you'd suggest it is. Nobody here has made anything like that claim. On the other hand, numerous people HAVE argued against Semenya because they don't like to see their favorite athlete's feelings hurt.

It is a difficult issue. Some people suggest Semenya, for example, should be required to use the women's bathroom and compete against men. I don't see that as reasonable at all.

Semenya competed as a girl long before this was an issue, and long before anyone might've even suggested she run as a man. At what age, exactly, in the juniors, do you deal with this and say 'no, now you have to run against the boys'? At what age do you think a child's testosterone levels should be measured to see where she falls and who she competes against?

Is it difficult? Of course it is. Half the people on this thread alone keep referring to Semenya, a woman, as 'he'. Even one of the people who say Semenya should use the women's bathroom keeps referring to Semenya as "he". Clearly it's not "easy".

Five year olds? I guarantee you, ironically, when Semenya was 5 years old she ran as a girl and all the other five year olds she ran against were perfectly OK with that. Maybe the issue isn't about five year olds.

Again, the bathroom issue is irrelevant. This is a fairness issue, not a social justice issue. Don't conflate the two.

No one can, with a straight face, look at Semenya and make the claim that Semenya should be competing against women. To steal a Bob Dylan lyric, you don't always need a weather man to know which way the wind's blowing. Similarly, it's not that hard to take one look at Semenya, realize that at minimum, something's up. Best case scenario is that she's intersex and is given a massive unfair advantage as a result of grossly elevated testosterone levels. I don't know why this needed so much analysis for so many years. Just tell Semenya to compete against the men or tell Semenya they can't compete. Simple.

OtherGuy1984 wrote:

Again, the bathroom issue is irrelevant. This is a fairness issue, not a social justice issue. Don't conflate the two.

No one can, with a straight face, look at Semenya and make the claim that Semenya should be competing against women. To steal a Bob Dylan lyric, you don't always need a weather man to know which way the wind's blowing. Similarly, it's not that hard to take one look at Semenya, realize that at minimum, something's up. Best case scenario is that she's intersex and is given a massive unfair advantage as a result of grossly elevated testosterone levels. I don't know why this needed so much analysis for so many years. Just tell Semenya to compete against the men or tell Semenya they can't compete. Simple.

I don't think it's irrelevant at all. I don't see folks can argue on one hand she's a woman and on the other she should compete against men.

If it's "fairness" (whatever that is) I'd people only make that argument because she wins. If another intersex athlete was competing and routinely NOT winning, and I'm sure there are plenty, nobody would care. So it's only unfair because she wins.

It's not about "social justice", whatever that is. It's about gender. Semenya is a woman by virtually any metric. She competes as a woman, imo. Regulating that she takes drugs to lower her T levels to make it fair is like saying lesser talented athletes should take PEDs to enhance their performance and make it fair as well.

[9] POSTED:

There are two main reasons why people have become so politically correct in Canada. That includes the all white male distance runner fraternity (AWMDRF) on this forum.

Reason [1]: The need to raise their status and reputation in their community.

We all know that there is a long history of racism in Canada (and the United States). Most of which was committed by white males. Therefore the white males of today, being aware of this shameful past, have (very rightly) decided to move away from the type of thinking and actions of their ancestors.

But, unfortunately what has happened, is that they have overshot. They have gone to the other extreme. That being a society of politically correct individuals that don't want to point out anything out of fear of a decline in status and reputation. They are so afraid of being labelled as a racist or a bigot or a xenophobe, that they either stay silent about issues or they go bases loaded home run PC.

I can say with confidence that most of you are not racists, or bigots or xenophobes. So why be afraid that someone may call you that? If you know in your heart that you are not, then you should have no apprehension to fully speak your mind on controversial topics.

Reason [2]: Fear of the new laws and repercussions.

Thanks to Justin Trudeau and several others before him, Canada has become a place similar to Western Europe. Where freedom of speech and expression has actually become against the law. Yes this is true.

Growing up in Canada, I was always taught that free speech is in the bill of rights. But now these PC politicians are tearing apart the fabric of the nation by introducing legislation that can imprison someone who simply voices an opinion.

For example Justin True-dope supports the hijab. That head scarf is a symbol of the 7th century islamic oppression of women. It has no place in a civilized society like Canada, in the 21st century. But (sigh) if you say this, you get in trouble. I highly doubt this man would ever force his wife or his daughter to put that on their heads. But he is ok for other men to do so.

He forces Canadians to simply bow their heads to people who come into the country and disrespect established laws, rules and freedoms and impose their backward 7th century customs on this advanced, educated and excellent society.

Now you have a case of a group of individuals, namely Y chromosome hermaphrodites, who have busted into the sport of track and field. They have clearly violated the rules of fair play, and have had the IAAF overturn established rules related to hyperandrogenism.

. . . and the reaction by the PC community? The same. Bow your head and let the integrity of the sport be torn to pieces. Keep up the same PC behaviour in Canada and you will have Sharia Law in Ontario within a few years.

#NeverPC #NeverScared #NeverAWMDRF

OtherGuy1984 wrote:

No one can, with a straight face, look at Dafne and make the claim that Dafne should be competing against women.