This is fine and acceptable as long as they are able to figure out the exact amount of testosterone the elite-level female athlete has who is not androgenous.
Then, they would have to titrate the substances in carefully in order to maintain that level.
Any less than that and they are cheating Semenya.
If no titration or monitoring policies are in place, then they should not rule in favor of this until they have an "A" standard for the testosterone levels of most female athletes. In other words, they would have to delve into major statistical analysis to be correct--it's not that simple.
Scientifically speaking, they would have to get a mean, median and, probably, more importantly, a mode for the female athlete. The mean will tell them what the trend is overall. The median will determine a direct midpoint for the levels, and the mode will let them know what most of the female athletes are doing. You would then need a control group of non-athletic females to see what their levels are.
Why?
You would need to test both of them in a workout situation to find out the maximum (or near maximum) they could reach in a situation that amplifies their testosterone levels (since they can switch situationally). You would then need to find the standard deviation because you would have to know the full extent of the ranges of possibility.
Only then could you create a baseline by which all female athletes (androgenous or true XX) should be at in order to state what is proper for an athlete like Caster Semenya.
Sadly enough, unless all of these are in place and the full opinions and adjudication are conducted in a fully clinical manner without bias, any ruling seems premature since the scope of androgenous levels may not be completely evaluated and understood.
tl;dr version: No, this is not good as it's not a fair rendering.
Mike
I will add one item here to clarify:
Percentage of "advantage" does not tell us anything about levels.
We would need more evidence about levels.
Bizarre that they would allow her to run longer events with high T.
It is a huge mistake when a governing body thinks they can alter one of the most powerful hormones in someone's body simply because they have an abnormal amount of it relative to others.
It's my understanding Semenya's natural testosterone levels are in the 200-250 ng/ml range, which is about 4-5 times greater than many athletic women.
I don't think history will smile upon the IAAF altering the way people's bodies naturally express themselves genetically.
This is so much bigger than our sport.
Except that we already do this with hematocrit, so I don't see why doing it with testosterone should be a big deal. I'm in favor of it.
Herstory wrote:
I don't think history will smile upon the IAAF altering the way people's bodies naturally express themselves genetically.
On this note I do agree with you. But I carry that to mean Semenya should not be able to compete with women. She should have to compete in an open division against men or else find some other category for competition. It's entirely unfair to the majority of women who don't naturally have levels close to Semenya. Semenya is quite unique.
I'm un familiar with how natural hematocrit levels are limited. Any sources?
"No, this is not good as it's not a fair rendering."
-That really cracked me up. Go watch the 3 women winning over and over at the international level and then please tell me again what's "not fair".
Cycling didn't have an EPO test so decided 50% was the upper bound of natural and tested that instead. For many years every careful pro cyclist had a natural haemocrit level of 49.9%.
Crappy link but the history is here:
It's absurd that we still even have separate men's and women's events.
And all those CS unfairly beat, who lost their chance for something higher, do they just go quietly into that sad night of yesterday?
Thanks for nothing, bureaucratic losers.
What about others like Dafne Schippers, Niyonsaba, Wambui, Dutee Chand..........................
Herstory wrote:
It is a huge mistake when a governing body thinks they can alter one of the most powerful hormones in someone's body simply because they have an abnormal amount of it relative to others.
It's my understanding Semenya's natural testosterone levels are in the 200-250 ng/ml range, which is about 4-5 times greater than many athletic women.
I don't think history will smile upon the IAAF altering the way people's bodies naturally express themselves genetically.
This is so much bigger than our sport.
You missed the point entirely. This isnt meant to have men lower their testosterrone to compete as women. Its to keep men from competing as women.
If her levels are natural, how did she unfairly beat anyone? I hope she sues and makes $$$$$$$$$
Herstory wrote:
It is a huge mistake when a governing body thinks they can alter one of the most powerful hormones in someone's body simply because they have an abnormal amount of it relative to others.
It's my understanding Semenya's natural testosterone levels are in the 200-250 ng/ml range, which is about 4-5 times greater than many athletic women.
I don't think history will smile upon the IAAF altering the way people's bodies naturally express themselves genetically.
This is so much bigger than our sport.
Agree completely, we don't understand enough about these complex biological pathways and their knock on effects.
Difficult situation but this poor women just wants to race. She should just step away from this madness.
In addition the hypocrisy is huge, this coming from a governing body who clearly has no desire to catch PED cheats.
This is an outrage
Doesn’t Sound that this is good for her health
If they force this, they should at least also allow for PEDs (not require that you use PEDs)
Otherwise, they are talking from both sides of their mouth at once
She can move to the 200m and dominate against Dafne Schippers.
I don't believe that this will settle it so easily. CAS will still have to rule on this, I am sure.
Make Semenya compete as a man . End of thread.