that's not what matters at all wrote:
ClonedDuck wrote:
+1
He finished. That's what matters.
why?!
what's the value of a 2:03 guy struggling and trashing his body just to finish in the heat?
this is his livelihood. the sooner he is back training at a high level, the better. this only hinders it.
he really ran the second half at like 1:31?! haha
exactly!
Or you know, generations of active lifestyles at altitude and healthier diets. That might have something to do with it.
that's not what matters at all wrote:
ClonedDuck wrote:
+1
He finished. That's what matters.
why?!
what's the value of a 2:03 guy struggling and trashing his body just to finish in the heat?
this is his livelihood. the sooner he is back training at a high level, the better. this only hinders it.
he really ran the second half at like 1:31?! haha
Eh I don't think 7:00 mile pace is going to trash his body
raymondy wrote:
Or you know, generations of active lifestyles at altitude and healthier diets. That might have something to do with it.
you still don't get it . This is not about physical ability ....It's about mind state, and their APPROACH towars running. Again, they see the bigger picture.
One of the main reasons they are better is because of their mind state and approach with every aspect of running.
- training only on grass and soft terrain, and racing on the roads
- diet
- no inferior complexes so they are not scared to DNF or run hard during a race
- they don't over train
etc, etc, etc.
They just have a more reasonable and logic attitude.
Hardloper wrote:
that's not what matters at all wrote:
why?!
what's the value of a 2:03 guy struggling and trashing his body just to finish in the heat?
this is his livelihood. the sooner he is back training at a high level, the better. this only hinders it.
he really ran the second half at like 1:31?! haha
Eh I don't think 7:00 mile pace is going to trash his body
Somewhat agree here. You'd have to look at the splits. If he went abruptly from 4:40 pace to 7:00 pace then I'd say he just used it as a long training run once he realized he was done.
Now if every 5k got slower and slower...that was still probably a ton of strain even if he was running at 7:00 pace.
Scorpion_runner wrote:
raymondy wrote:
Or you know, generations of active lifestyles at altitude and healthier diets. That might have something to do with it.
you still don't get it . This is not about physical ability ....It's about mind state, and their APPROACH towars running. Again, they see the bigger picture.
One of the main reasons they are better is because of their mind state and approach with every aspect of running.
- training only on grass and soft terrain, and racing on the roads
- diet
- no inferior complexes so they are not scared to DNF or run hard during a race
- they don't over train
etc, etc, etc.
They just have a more reasonable and logic attitude.
I get it just fine. You don't get it if you don't think that physical ability is a big part of the reason why they are so good. I'm assuming English isn't your first language?
LM wrote:
Hardloper wrote:
Eh I don't think 7:00 mile pace is going to trash his body
Somewhat agree here. You'd have to look at the splits. If he went abruptly from 4:40 pace to 7:00 pace then I'd say he just used it as a long training run once he realized he was done.
Now if every 5k got slower and slower...that was still probably a ton of strain even if he was running at 7:00 pace.
It looks like that's what he did around 23k. From then on his pace was pretty even around 21:xx per 5k.
The telecast showed him running alone and very slowly a little bit before the half.
Hardloper wrote:
that's not what matters at all wrote:
why?!
what's the value of a 2:03 guy struggling and trashing his body just to finish in the heat?
this is his livelihood. the sooner he is back training at a high level, the better. this only hinders it.
he really ran the second half at like 1:31?! haha
Eh I don't think 7:00 mile pace is going to trash his body
he didn't just run a HM at 61:00 and then jog 7:00 pace for the last half.
there is a lot of stress and pounding involved if trying to keep the wheels from falling off. a race where you struggle to hang on is so much toil on the body, even it's it's a slower time in the end.
you know this though. i don't even know why i'm arguing with you.
raymondy wrote:
Scorpion_runner wrote:
you still don't get it . This is not about physical ability ....It's about mind state, and their APPROACH towars running. Again, they see the bigger picture.
One of the main reasons they are better is because of their mind state and approach with every aspect of running.
- training only on grass and soft terrain, and racing on the roads
- diet
- no inferior complexes so they are not scared to DNF or run hard during a race
- they don't over train
etc, etc, etc.
They just have a more reasonable and logic attitude.
I get it just fine. You don't get it if you don't think that physical ability is a big part of the reason why they are so good. I'm assuming English isn't your first language?
No s h i t. However, the body means nothing if the mind is not in the right place. Yes, they have physical abilities, and are gifted. Those are main reasons. And ,again, that is a given.
However, talent and physical ability can only get you so far. You think Kipchoge is great because of his physical ability only? NO. There are runners who are way more talented than him, Bekele being one of them. However, the difference is the approach and mind state.
They are smarter runners.
So.... wrote:
Ouch. Biggest positive split by an elite thonner ever?
No. Boston 92, Simon Karori led through the halfway in 1:02:something and finished in 2:53.
that's not what matters at all wrote:
he didn't just run a HM at 61:00 and then jog 7:00 pace for the last half.
there is a lot of stress and pounding involved if trying to keep the wheels from falling off. a race where you struggle to hang on is so much toil on the body, even it's it's a slower time in the end.
you know this though. i don't even know why i'm arguing with you.
You're assuming he was running hard the second half, but that's most likely not the case
Scorpion_runner wrote:
raymondy wrote:
I get it just fine. You don't get it if you don't think that physical ability is a big part of the reason why they are so good. I'm assuming English isn't your first language?
No s h i t. However, the body means nothing if the mind is not in the right place. Yes, they have physical abilities, and are gifted. Those are main reasons. And ,again, that is a given.
However, talent and physical ability can only get you so far. You think Kipchoge is great because of his physical ability only? NO. There are runners who are way more talented than him, Bekele being one of them. However, the difference is the approach and mind state.
They are smarter runners.
I never said that they are better because of physical ability only. Re-read my posts and you'll see this. I was pointing out the farce of a statement you made that implied that they are better solely due to their approach when they are struggling in a race. "This why Africans are better" means that is THE reason. It's a lot more complicated than that.
"That’s not how it works, and this why Africans are better.
They understand that running is about the big picture and not one race, so they will drop out and save themselves for another race. That way they can race again later on in the month or next month.
They race for a certain time, not to just finish a race. They can do that with their eyes close. So if things are going bad in the first half of the race, cut it off, label it as a tempo run, and find another Race to run. No need to beat the body up any further."
I guess it makes some sense to save yourself for other races but it must be a huge mental challenge for people who drop out every other race. That just creates more and more doubt. The bad races help give you some added strength when you are feeling good to know you can get through anything.
raymondy wrote:
Scorpion_runner wrote:
No s h i t. However, the body means nothing if the mind is not in the right place. Yes, they have physical abilities, and are gifted. Those are main reasons. And ,again, that is a given.
However, talent and physical ability can only get you so far. You think Kipchoge is great because of his physical ability only? NO. There are runners who are way more talented than him, Bekele being one of them. However, the difference is the approach and mind state.
They are smarter runners.
I never said that they are better because of physical ability only. Re-read my posts and you'll see this. I was pointing out the farce of a statement you made that implied that they are better solely due to their approach when they are struggling in a race. "This why Africans are better" means that is THE reason. It's a lot more complicated than that.
"That’s not how it works, and this why Africans are better.
They understand that running is about the big picture and not one race, so they will drop out and save themselves for another race. That way they can race again later on in the month or next month.
They race for a certain time, not to just finish a race. They can do that with their eyes close. So if things are going bad in the first half of the race, cut it off, label it as a tempo run, and find another Race to run. No need to beat the body up any further."
You are over-complicating and rambling on about points no one was making. Scorpion is right. Deal with it.
Afraid not. There are more reasons that the Africans are dominant besides their mentality. Period.
raymondy wrote:
Afraid not. There are more reasons that the Africans are dominant besides their mentality. Period.
He was highlighting a reason. Obviously there are many reasons Africans are dominant. He knows that, probably better than you. But in this case, he was just highlighting the one reason as an example. For some reason, you missed that.
Because that's not how he phrased it. Scorpion doesn't know more than me about African dominance - there are plenty of examples on this messageboard where he shows that he knows very little about the sport of running.
So he ran the second half at 50% slower pace than the first half. That's (very roughly) going from 3min/km to 4.5min/kim. That's an enormous drop off. Sounds to me like he figured the race was over, and he could use the second half as training, and that's what he did. Seems quite sensible.
These guys aren't running for times, they're running for money. If there's no money to be had, they need to find a better way to use the rest of the morning.
Scorpion_runner wrote:
raymondy wrote:
Africans are better solely because they drop out of races when they are having a bad day. Right.
That's what you took from that? lol
I'm saying africans have a better perspective than americans when it comes to running. They don't have complexes, or feel inferior if they drop out. In america, there is this foolish mentality to tough it out at all cost, which is not running smart.
An african will drop out of the race, and will not think anything of it.....not one bit. If americans run poorly or drop out, they will think of themselves as losers, and fret about it for the rest of their lives ( lol) .. Or if a person gives up, they'll ridicule that person or degrade them.
It's the same thing with training. A kenyan will run at 9 min or 10 min pace during a long run or recovery run and think nothing of it. Americans runners wouldn't want to be seen running that slow, so they over run their recovery and long runs.
That is what I'm saying.
"He who fights and runs away, lives to fight another day. He who stays and takes a chance, rides away in an ambulance."
Am I living in the twilight zone? The Boston Marathon weather was terrible!
Is there a rule against attaching a helium balloon to yourself while running a road race?
How rare is it to run a sub 5 minute mile AND bench press 225?
Move over Mark Coogan, Rojo and John Kellogg share their 3 favorite mile workouts
Matt Choi was drinking beer halfway through the Boston Marathon
Mark Coogan says that if you could only do 3 workouts as a 1500m runner you should do these